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Full Transcript of Cecil Smith Interview (Oxygen) (self.MauraMurrayEvidence)

submitted by MauraMurrayEvidence

Original PDF

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Cecil Smith Interview, Part 1

Cecil Smith Interview

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Male: Keep me young.

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Male: [inaudible 00:00:00] And they're like "Look. I had to talk

to the police, I talked to the police."

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Crew: All right. How's everybody feelin'?

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Art: Exactly. (clears throat)

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Male: [inaudible 00:00:07]

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Male: I know.

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Crew: Okay.

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Art: Right.

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Crew: Let's see [crosstalk 00:00:09]-

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Crew: Good for the [crosstalk 00:00:10]?

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Crew: Have to see.

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Crew: Let me know when you're ready.

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Art: Yeah.

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Crew: Clear the, uh ... Everybody ready to roll it up?

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Crew: Yep.

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Art: Good job. Nice.

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Crew: All right.

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Maggie: That was good.

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Crew: We're, Jeff we're good.

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Art: Good. Very good.

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Crew: Okay.

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Maggie: We're gonna do pickups ask about Fred.

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Crew: Open the door.

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Art: Yeah, we have to do that.

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Maggie: Yeah [inaudible 00:00:26].

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Crew: Walk in, walk up, say hello.

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Crew: [crosstalk 00:00:27]

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Crew: Ready?

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Art: [00:00:30] (sighs) Yeah.

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Crew: Ready?

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Art: Shit.

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Crew: Excuse me, sir.

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Art: Hey.

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Cecil Smith: Hello sir.

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Art: Art Roderick, good to meet you Cecil.

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Maggie: Hi, Maggie. Nice to meet you.

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Cecil Smith: Hi.

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Art: Jeff, good to see you again.

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Maggie: Thanks for meeting with us. Hi. How are you?

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Male: Good to see you again.

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Art: (clears throat)

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Crew: Excellent.

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Maggie: Great.

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Crew: Stop down for one sec here.

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Crew: [crosstalk 00:00:51]

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Crew: Where's that ...

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Art: This is the ...

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Crew: Yep. Pull off one.

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Crew: Just make one little adjustment.

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Crew: There you go.

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Maggie: (sneezes)

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Crew: There you go.

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Maggie: Chief?

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Art: Yeah.

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Crew: [inaudible 00:00:58] would [00:01:00] never cut. [inaudible 00:00:59]

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Crew: And, um ...

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Male: Cover up that bald spot. That's good.

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Art: Yeah, I know, huh? Yeah.

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Male: [crosstalk 00:01:12] (laughs)

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Art: I got that problem in the back.

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Crew: [crosstalk 00:01:15]

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Maggie: Should we start again? [crosstalk 00:01:17]

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Art: Yeah. You go ahead.

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Male: They should name this room after you guys. You guys have spent more time in this room than anybody else [crosstalk 00:01:20].

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Art: Yeah, I know, huh?

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Male: We're gonna name it after you.

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Art: (laughs)

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Maggie: I know.

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Art: The Texas Crew Memorial Conference Room, right?

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Maggie: (laughs)

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Male: [crosstalk 00:01:30] maybe?

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Crew: I think [00:01:30] we're gonna be [inaudible 00:01:32].

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Crew: No problem.

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Art: (clears throat)

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Crew: We're rollin'?

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Crew: Yeah. We look good.

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Crew: Okay.

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Crew: Yeah.

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Crew: Give me one second to get my sand bag on my shoulder here.

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Crew: (laughs)

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Crew: Right José?

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Crew: That should do it.

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Crew: Okay. Everybody good?

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Crew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

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Crew: All right.

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Crew: [crosstalk 00:01:58]

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Crew: Who's startin'?

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Maggie: [00:02:00] Whose?

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Crew: Huh?

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Crew: I'll put it on the floor next to you.

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Art: Oh!

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Crew: You wanna put it on the floor?

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Crew: Actually on that side is fine.

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Crew: Okay.

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Crew: (coughs)

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Crew: Give me some, give me some room José.

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Cecil Smith: You could get me in trouble. My first big starring role.

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Maggie: (laughs)

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Art: [crosstalk 00:02:13]

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Crew: Who's startin'?

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Maggie: I'm, um, starting.

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Crew: All right. Go ahead.

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Maggie: Okay. Chief Smith, thank you so much for meeting with us. We really appreciate it. Um-

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Cecil Smith: You're welcome.

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Maggie: You know, you were the first person on the scene at Maura's accident and a lot of people have brought you up so [00:02:30] we wanted to have you here to just-

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Cecil Smith: Okay.

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Maggie: ... clear the air for yourself. Um, but we would love to start and know, you know, your history in law enforcement and just in your career.

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Cecil Smith: Okay. I, I had a career in the military before, uh, law enforcement and in 1995 I became a police officer, uh, same, same drill everyone else does. Go to the academy, work your way up through the ranks and, uh, when this incident occurred I was the Sergeant [00:03:00] of the Haverhill Police Department, so ...

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Maggie: Great. And so we want to go over the basics of the timeline of that night. What you do remember. Um, when, when did you get called and what did you hear over dispatch?

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Cecil Smith: Um. I was dispatched to a, the report of a, a car accident near the Weathered Barn and, uh, I, that was probably around 7:30 at night. I was on the 3:00 to 11:00 [00:03:30] shift, so I was the only officer on, so I responded to the, to the call.

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Maggie: Were you at another call before that, or ...?

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Cecil Smith: I don't recall.

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Maggie: Okay. Um, and so when you arrived on the scene what did, what do you remember seeing?

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Cecil Smith: Um, as I approached the scene I, uh, there was a 90 degree corner, um, I came around the corner and there was a black vehicle in my lane, facing me. Um, I could see, uh, tire impressions from the, going from the road to [00:04:00] a group of trees and then back to the vehicle that was at final rest. Um. I activated my take-down lights, they're like spotlights on your light bar, you can see everything in the area, and there was no one around the vehicle. So, uh, I went first to the first 911 caller, uh, Westman's house. Said "Where's the girl?" He said "We don't know. N-nobody's been here so we don't know. We, we haven't seen anything, [00:04:30] n-nobody leave."

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I went and talked to Mr. Atwood. He said "I just talked to her a couple minutes ago. She's right there at the car." I said "No, she's not there." Uh. He described her for me, he said "It's a pretty young lady, uh, shoulder-length brown hair. She was the only one I saw." Uh. I said "Was she, did she look like she was hurt, 'cause the wh-when I made a quick, uh, check of the vehicle both airbags were deployed and there was [00:05:00] a crack on the windshield, driver's side." He said "Nah. She looked shaken up but she didn't look hurt, but I think she'd been drinking because she slurred her speech and, uh, she had to lean on somethin' while she was standin' there." Uh, he said "I asked her if she wanted me to call the police. 'Nope. No. Please don't call the police.'" And, uh, as soon as he left there he went and apparently made another 911 call, which, uh, for some reason went through the Hanover [00:05:30] dispatch and took a lot longer to get back to me then, uh, what it normally would've taken. So that's what I saw when I first go there. And the vehicle was locked.

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Maggie: It was locked. Um, when did you find the rag in the tailpipe?

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Cecil Smith: I don't remember exactly, um, if it was th-the initial inspection around the vehicle or if it was when it was going up onto the flatbed. Um. I don't remember.

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Art: You said, you said, you said you, th-that [00:06:00] there were tire impressions.

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Cecil Smith: (clears throat)

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Art: Were these skid marks?

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Cecil Smith: Uh, yeah. Pretty much.

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Art: Like we usually-

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Cecil Smith: You could, you could see where the car had come around that corner-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... missed it and gone straight into the tree and then spun around.

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Art: Okay.

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Cecil Smith: And there was front-end damage to the vehicle also.

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Art: But there were skid marks across the, like across the road, because we've heard she mighta hit the inside of that corner a little bit.

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Cecil Smith: No. Th-the road was bare. There was a lot of snow on the ground-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... maybe a foot or so. The road was bare. Th-there were no skid [00:06:30] marks. There was just tire impressions in the snow-

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Art: Okay.

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Cecil Smith: ... that went from the, the tar to those trees and then back around to where the vehicle was facin' me.

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Art: Okay.

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Maggie: And is this common? Do you, were, at the time were you responding to calls of abandoned vehicles with no driver at it?

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Cecil Smith: (laughs) You ask any policeman that's been a patrol officer more than three days and I'll bet you they will tell you they've been to an accident, [00:07:00] gone to a scene, there's an accident here, found a vehicle with beer cans all over the place, nobody around, um, next day somebody will show up at the station and say "Did you guys find my car? It was parked in my driveway last night." Yeah, sure it was. It's right where you crashed it (laughs) last night. So. (clears throat)

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Maggie: Um. Were you at all concerned, thinking that there was a, a girl who was maybe drinking out in the cold?

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Cecil Smith: Yes. [00:07:30] Uh, so, wh-wh-wh-when there's a car crash, um, the dispatch normally automatically sends the fire department and EMS, um, and I asked. I called the dispatch office and I said "Could you tell the responding units to keep their eyes out for a cute, uh, five foot seven lady with shoulder-length hair 'cause she's, she was apparently drivin' [00:08:00] the car and she's not around." Um. While I was waiting for other people to arrive on the scene, like the flatbed, um I did walk up and f-forward on, uh, I, east it would've been, uh, checkin' both sides of the road. I saw n-no indication that anybody went across the snow. Uh, came back down the other side of the road, checked there, passed Butch's house, Westman's and then back across. Um, granted I didn't get to, [00:08:30] get to go a, a great distance but I did check in the immediate area and I saw no indication that somebody had gone through the snow.

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Maggie: Hm. What did you make of Butch when you spoke with him?

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Cecil Smith: I-I didn't speak to him very long. I-I just probably less than a minute, I would say. And I, I didn't know him before, so ...

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Maggie: And this-

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Art: What, yeah what k-, what vehicle were you in?

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Cecil Smith: I was in [00:09:00] the, uh, the Explorer 4x4. Um, a-and the reason that would've been, um, it was around this time of year, winter-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... you know, February, snow on the ground. Our town is 50 square miles and there's probably a couple hundred miles of roads. Um. Some of 'em, there's three main state roads but most of 'em are rural dirt roads and if you ever driven on a dirt [00:09:30] road in the winter time, they don't become bare like the tar. That, they're icy and, uh, normally if you're on duty by yourself in the winter time in those conditions you'd take the 4x4 'cause I've been stuck in a cruiser before, alone on a shift and you only do that once and then you take the 4x4.

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Maggie: So you were in an SUV, that night?

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Cecil Smith: Y-yes. SUV. Th-the Explorer. Correct.

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Maggie: And [00:10:00] have you heard the, the theory that there was another officer on the scene before you? Th-th-the report by Witness A?

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Cecil Smith: I-I've heard of that but there was, there was no one there when I got on the scene.

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Maggie: Do you remember what route you took to get to Maura?

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Cecil Smith: Yes.

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Maggie: 'Cause she said that an SUV 001 passed her two times.

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Cecil Smith: That's possible. Where did sh-, where did they pass her?

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Art: Uh, I think it was on Swiftwater Road comin' outta Woodsville-

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Cecil Smith: Okay-

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Art: ... area.

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Cecil Smith: ... th-that makes perfect sense. Okay, so [00:10:30] if this is my town-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... it's 10 miles long, five miles wide. Route 10 follows the Connecticut River-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... north and south. Okay? And then at the far northern end, Route 112. And I-I've been told you drove on that.

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: That's a state road. So the fastest way to get there it's in this far northeast corner is to go down Route 10 to 112. Uh, having grown up there I also know [00:11:00] that if you go all the way to where Route 10 and 112 intersect-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... uh, you're just gonna add another couple miles to your trip 'cause you can go up past our hospital, which is Swiftwater Road-

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: ... and then m-maybe a mile or so up there's a small road, Sawyer Hill Road, that drops down and connects back up with 112. That the route I took-

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: ... uh, for several reasons. Number one, you might've noticed when you were out, [00:11:30] there's frost

heaves out there.

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Maggie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

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Cecil Smith: (laughs) One or two.

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Maggie: (laughs)

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Art: Yes. We did notice that. That's a rough road. (laughs)

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Cecil Smith: So. Yeah. And so you can't, I was goin'-

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Art: (clears throat)

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Cecil Smith: ... Code 3 but you, I wasn't goin', I mean a 4x4 on, with those roads. So if, I don't know where she saw me first but if she saw me on Swiftwater Road-

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Art: Yeah.

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Cecil Smith: ... and where'd she see me the next time?

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Art: I think up by French Pond, just down from-

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Maggie: [crosstalk 00:11:56]

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Art: ... the Swiftwater Way Station.

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Cecil Smith: Okay. Well that's perfect [00:12:00] because-

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Art: [crosstalk 00:11:59]

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Cecil Smith: ... that's, that a, there's another sharp corner right there-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... and, yeah. If she could've beat me up to that intersection, yes. I would've passed right by that.

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Art: Okay.

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Maggie: Hm. Wow.

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Male: (sighs deeply)

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Art: Um, the, the, so when you, when you arrived at the accident scene, um, you parked-

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Cecil Smith: Nose-

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Art: ... like nose-to-nose-

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Cecil Smith: Yes. Yes.

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Art: ... and then put your lights [00:12:30] on, obviously.

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Cecil Smith: Correct. Yeah.

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Art: Um, (clears throat) at that point there did you call in immediately, you know, you're off at the scene I'm callin' ...

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Cecil Smith: I don't, I don't remember because once I got there and I didn't see anybody in the scene-

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Art: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

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Cecil Smith: ... I mighta hopped out and, to see if somebody was hurt in the bushes. I-I so I, I don't know the answer to that question.

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: I know I had just spoken to them, dispatch, before I ca-, got off, uh, to make sure that that accident was, in fact, in [00:13:00] Haverhill because the Bath line is 100, 200 feet from where that accident is. You-you probably saw that-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... [crosstalk 00:13:08] yeah.

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Art: So what does, what does, what does that mean that the Bath line is ...

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Cecil Smith: It means if that accident was on the other side of that post that would've been, the state police woulda had to take that scene instead of me.

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Art: And did a, did a, a state trooper swing by there, or ...?

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Cecil Smith: I-I believe, yeah. A, uh, Monahan was there. Yep.

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Maggie: [00:13:30] Hm.

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Art: And what was your interaction with, with, uh, Chief Monahan?

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Cecil Smith: He was a state trooper, sir.

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Art: Yeah, at the time, yeah.

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Cecil Smith: Right. Oh that's right, he's a Chief now. Um. He asked if I needed any help and I said, uh "If you could just

check d-down the roads to see if that girl's out walkin' around somewhere." Um, and I believe he went east toward Lincoln, uh, and checked that part [00:14:00] of 112.

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: I-I'm not sure because I had firemen also, I-I mean I didn't direct 'em "You go check that road, you go check this"-

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Art: Right.

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: ... I said "Can you guys go just, just ch-, look around for this girl." And, uh, and that's about it. I-I didn't

talk to him very long.

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Maggie: And the neighbor, Butch. He also went out and searched.

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Cecil Smith: Yes, he did.

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Maggie: What did you make of that?

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Cecil Smith: A small town like that? I, not much to tell you the truth. I mean ... sorry.

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Art: No. [00:14:30] I hit, I hit Jeff's foot there. (laughs)

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Cecil Smith: Oh. Okay. Uh, yeah. I-I mean a lot of people they know that I'm, I'm one officer in 50 square miles. Uh. My nearest backup is the state police, who, Monahan happened to be in the area and he responded. But other than that it's just me, so, uh, lots, lots of times citizens will, will offer to help you out.

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Maggie: Hm. Yeah 'cause a lot of people said it seemed like he was maybe establishing an alibi, driving up and down the road, something like [00:15:00] that.

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Cecil Smith: Y-Y-You know that didn't even occur to me at the time because, like I said, when I see a vehicle crash and I see alcohol spilled on the inside of the vehicle and open vehicle, uh, open containers I'm thinkin' that this person doesn't wanna get arrested and I'll see 'em tomorrow.

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Maggie: Did you ever get the car doors of that vehicle open that night?

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Cecil Smith: I did not, no.

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Art: And the, the, uh, I mean did you, [00:15:30] y-you mentioned alcohol, um, how did you come to that conclusion?

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Cecil Smith: I could s-, when I looked in the vehicle I could see, b-besides the airbags deployed and all that, I could see

something red had been splashed on the driver's side door-

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Art: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

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Cecil Smith: ... and then I also saw somethin' splashed on the ceiling of the vehicle. As if you have somethin' in your hand and you hit a tree with your car and you went ... Um. [00:16:00] I couldn't tell you what it is but I could make a educated guess that it was wine from the box of wine that was sitting behind the driver's seat.

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: And I can also make an educated guess that it was wine because, when that vehicle was towed off the scene onto the flatbed-

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... underneath the car, on top of the snow, was a Coke bottle with some red liquid in it that smelled like an

alcoholic beverage to me.

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: So.

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Maggie: [00:16:30] Did anything about the scene strike you as odd when you first arrived?

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Cecil Smith: Not really, no. I mean it's a sh-, 90 degree corner where the accident was, um, the vehicle was, I mean not a lot of damage but the vehicle was there, locked, which to me that's probably the on-, the major odd thing about it. Normally they don't lock their car before they take off. Um. Other than that it was just a normal scene [00:17:00] except the driver wasn't there.

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Art: Are there many accidents on that corner?

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Maggie: Yeah.

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Cecil Smith: Pff. I don't know the answer to that, sir. I know there's a lotta accidents (laughs) in the town of Haverhill.

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: But-

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Art: That's a hairpin corner-

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Cecil Smith: It is. Yes.

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Art: ... that is, I'm ...

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Maggie: Oh, we forgot to ask at the beginning how long were you part of the Haverhill PD?

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Cecil Smith: At the time, um, I was in my ninth year and I was the Sergeant, so ...

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Maggie: Yeah.

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Art: And you eventually-

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Cecil Smith: Became the Chief.

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Art: ... rose to the rank of Chief?

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Cecil Smith: Yes, sir. [00:17:30] Right.

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Maggie: Hm. You're familiar with the area. Um-

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Cecil Smith: Yes.

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Maggie: You know, looking back, 13 years later, and knowing now this person has been missing for that long, Maura's been missing for 13 years, is there anything you look back on and wish, maybe, you had done differently or, or had been done differently, period?

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Cecil Smith: (clears throat) With the, with what I knew of the scene? No. I mean, now I wish I would've called out everybody-

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Maggie: Yeah.

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Cecil Smith: ... and done [00:18:00] a search like they did, th-the troopers did a month or a couple weeks later with 100

guys, but at the time, no. That, that was some, like I said, that's somethin' that every patrol officer has seen, I'm sure.

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Maggie: Hm.

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Cecil Smith: Um ...

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Art: You know, there was, there was, there's also speculation about how long it took the report to be written.

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Cecil Smith: The accident report?

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Art: Uh, yeah.

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Cecil Smith: Oh, that's an easy one to answer.

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Art: Okay.

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Cecil Smith: Well you were, you were a-

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Art: Yes.

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Cecil Smith: ... law enforcement guy-

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Art: I know, I know.

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Cecil Smith: ... so I have-

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Art: [00:18:30] I think, I think I pretty well have the answer to that question but I-

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Cecil Smith: So I still have, in my bag if you wanna see it, it's a little leather notebook that I had when I was a police officer. And, when you get there, you'll say "Car into tree and, you know, tire impressions in the snow, and locked," and you scribble all those in there, um, then wh-when it calms down you take your pictures. Uh, nowadays I have, I guess they have computers that you can do that right from the car, [00:19:00] but-

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Maggie: Hm.

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Art: Right.

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Cecil Smith: ... back in the olden days that's, that's what you had-

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Art: [crosstalk 00:19:03]

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Cecil Smith: ... so, yeah, and then when you get a chance, you put that onto your accident report and that can take however long. Yeah. So ...

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Art: Yeah.

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[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview, Part 2

Cecil Smith: Well, how long did you, was it ...?

Art: Yeah, no, that, to me-

Cecil Smith: ... a week?

Maggie: It was six days.

Cecil Smith: Okay.

Art: ... yeah. To me that's not an [inaudible 00:19:21] amount of time-

Cecil Smith: Well, right. And then if-

Art: ... if you're runnin' from call to call to call to call.

Cecil Smith: Right. And then, then you're, yeah, also one guy on duty.

Art: Right.

Cecil Smith: And the [00:19:30] next day I spent most of that day, or that shift, following up with people on that incident, so ...

Maggie: And, with the accident report, a lot of people point out that the rag in the tailpipe is not mentioned in the accident report.

Cecil Smith: I-it's not in the accident report but that accident report, uh, refers to a, an incident report that's attached to that and that does.

Maggie: [00:20:00] Hm.

Art: There was a reference to a-

Cecil Smith: Right. I mean 'cause the accident report's just a-

Art: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: ... it's just a-

Art: A form. Yeah.

Cecil Smith: ... like when you go to the doctor's office it's name, date, and what we're here for and then he's got the big report behind it that shows all the times.

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: Things he did. Yep.

Maggie: What else you got?

Art: I mean do you have any thoughts at all as to what possibly happened to her? To Maura?

Cecil Smith: I-I don't. [00:20:30] N-none at all. I mean all I know is I never laid eyes on her-

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: ... uh.

Art: Did you ever talk to the family, any of the family members?

Cecil Smith: Fred. I did. The next day I contacted, well I had to do several police departments, Weymouth and, uh, Hanson to get contact information for Fred, and, uh Maura's mother, Laurie. I talked to both of them. Um, Fred, I-I didn't reach him until [00:21:00] later that day because he'd been working in Connecticut and he called me back and I explained it to him and he said "Well, you know, she had an accident a couple days ago. She's all depressed, you know. She might've done the old squaw." Like "What, what's that?" "Well, you know you're depressed and we talked about it before on our hikes, you know, you go out in the woods, you step off the trail, and you die." Like (laughs) "Hello." So [00:21:30] ...

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 4

Cecil Smith: So you dig it up and there's nothin' there. So ...

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: Not sayin' psychics can't do that, but ...

Art: Right.

Cecil Smith: [00:25:30] Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Maggie: You know, you have this opportunity right now to say anything you wanna say to people watching this. Um, is there anything you do wanna say?

Cecil Smith: If they know anything contact the cold case guys. Um. That, that's pretty much it because w-we've got a lot of, lot of information but it hasn't gotten us very far yet, I don't think. So, yeah. If somebody [00:26:00] knows somethin', just, even if it's anonymous, send it in.

Male: Uh, well, since we brought up psychics-

Crew: (laughs)

Art: Oh, god. Allison DuBois?

Maggie: Our favorite.

Art: Wait, did you hear about this? (laughs)

Male: Clears throat.

Male: No, um, th-that goes to like, the to-, the, around the town and around the car accident. Like are there places, and you talked about this [00:26:30] with, um-

Maggie: Hm.

Male: ... uh, you're gonna make me say his name. Todd. Um-

Maggie: Bogardus.

Male: Bogardus.

Art: Yes. Eric [Camper 00:26:37] knows his last name. Um, yeah.

Male: He was talking about dump sites, right?

Art: Right.

Male: Potential dump sites.

Art: Yeah.

Male: How there may be something on that line.

Art: (sighs)

Maggie: Hm.

Male: Like at, you know, being in that area, being in law enforcement where, where kids would go party or whatever [crosstalk 00:26:51].

Art: Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll ask you that question, Cecil. It's, it's, um, I mean you, you're talkin' about a 50 square, square mile area for your PD and I think you're the only, [00:27:00] uh, town in that area that has a police department, right?

Cecil Smith: Full, full-time-

Art: Full-time.

Cecil Smith: ... until you get to Littleton-

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: ... to the north or Lebanon/Hanover south, so, yeah.

Art: So, and I mean-

Cecil Smith: And Lincoln. [crosstalk 00:27:12]

Art: ... we've been, yeah, and Lincoln. We've been up in that area, I mean it's pretty rural in some of the-

Cecil Smith: Yeah.

Art: ... locations.

Cecil Smith: It is.

Art: Uh, as you get out from the center of town-

Cecil Smith: [crosstalk 00:27:20]

Art: ... um, you know, there's a lot of sites up there where you could dump a body.

Cecil Smith: Right. And we ran down [00:27:30] a lot of things, I mean, you talk about young kids and back roads at, you know-

Art: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Cecil Smith: ... we, we'd been out to calls to pick up, uh, ladies underwear, like that's Maura's underwear. So ... (laughs)

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: Do you think that, as you're driving through the area, like "Hm, I wonder if that's a spot"? Do you ever, do you, does she pop into your head, ever?

Cecil Smith: Eh, not as, uh, she used to, but, you know right at this point I just would like to know what happened. If she's on the beach in Cancun or if [00:28:00] she's u-under the snow somewhere, or, I don't know.

Crew: [inaudible 00:28:07]

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 5

Art: That's good, yeah. (laughs) Very good.

Crew: I do have a clarifying question. Um, so it sounds like, from speaking to Fred and Kathleen at the very beginning, um, it sounds like you got a pretty strong indication that Maura may have been despondent and done this [inaudible 00:28:27] a lot.

Cecil Smith: Right.

Crew: Um, but [00:28:30] you, y-y-you know Fred, to this day, is, is talking about the dirt bag who grabbed her.

Cecil Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: Um, so you kept all the possibilities open but, but can you, can you elaborate on that a little bit? Just sort of y-you know, initially we thought it was a suicide and that's when we, when it got serious and we, and we started to get more people involved in the search-

Cecil Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: ... but there were also other, um, y-you know other, other theories on what may have happened to her, including-

Crew: That was, [00:29:00] that was us. That was us, not them.

Maggie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: And that was [crosstalk 00:29:02]

Crew: He, he was only on [crosstalk 00:29:03]

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: We can ask, we can ask Chuck that.

Crew: Yeah. So that was, that was handed off to us so Cecil didn't have anything to do with that part of it. We did.

Crew: All right.

Cecil Smith: Thank you. (laughs)

Maggie: But we're asking Chuck Fred questions. We can ask that.

Crew: Yeah, we can circle back to Fred on that, um-

Maggie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: One, one other thing is just, I don't know if I just, during my coughing fit I missed it, but, um, wh-when you were talking about the alcohol the doors were locked but you, you said there was a can? Was it ...

Crew: Bottle.

Cecil Smith: [crosstalk 00:29:26]

Art: Under the car.

Maggie: He said af-, he did say after it was towed he could see it.

Art: Yeah, we got it.

Crew: [crosstalk 00:29:29] just [00:29:30] like choking myself.

Art: No, we got it.

Maggie: Yep.

Crew: And also he was told at the scene that she smelled of alcohol and was slurring her speech.

Maggie: Yes.

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: Right. You got that in, too. Yeah.

Crew: Leaning, and ...

Art: Right.

Crew: Um, anything else?

Crew: No, that's it.

Cecil Smith: Say you have to talk to Fred about why he thought she was gonna kill herself, I guess. I don't know.

Art: Yeah.

Crew: Did we go over all the, he went to all the neighbor's houses? Then I apologize. [inaudible 00:29:55]

Crew: He said that he-

Cecil Smith: Not that [00:30:00] night.

Crew: Yeah.

Crew: Not that night?

Cecil Smith: No.

Crew: I thought that you did go to the Westman's "Where's the girl?" Um-

Art: I got, I got, I got, I got, w-w-w-w-one question, hopefully y-you know. And, and I know usually the SOP as you go to who makes the 911 call-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: ... and check with them first-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: ... and that's sounds like what you did here.

Cecil Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Art: There was two 911 calls-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: ... F-Faith Westman and Butch Atwood-

Cecil Smith: Correct.

Art: ... and you talked to both of them. Do you know that if i-i-i-it, you know, we've heard different [00:30:30] things but is it standard procedure where the 911 operator would keep somebody on the line until, like you responded?

Cecil Smith: A medical emergency it definitely would, yes.

Art: Okay.

Cecil Smith: Um. Something like this, I-I don't know. I-I, you'd have to refer that one, or I'd have to, to the dispatch office. I-I don't know, sir.

Art: Okay.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: In my experience they would know.

Cecil Smith: Yeah.

Art: Okay.

Maggie: Hm. Okay.

Crew: I'm [00:31:00] good.

Maggie: All right.

Crew: Unless you guys have somethin' else?

Art: Nope.

Maggie: No.

Crew: That was everything, I think. Said anything that has come up and he hit everything. Yeah.

Crew: Put it to bed.

Art: Yep.

Maggie: Okay. Yep.

Crew: Take wrap?

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 6

Art: Yeah. We will do that. Cecil, appreciate-

Maggie: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: Thank you, sir.

Art: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Watch out. John's gonna, John's gonna run the boom into your head.

Cecil Smith: Aw. I think that hit me.

Art: (laughs)

Cecil Smith: Do I need my lawyer? (laughs)

Crew: The wrong [00:31:30] kind.

Cecil Smith: Oh, the wrong kind. Oh.

Crew: [crosstalk 00:31:31] Cecil, believe me.

Cecil Smith: Dammit.

Art: That's true. (laughs)

Cecil Smith: I forget [crosstalk 00:31:35]. Yeah, I do.

Crew: [crosstalk 00:31:36] dues.

Cecil Smith: I do remember.

Maggie: (laughs) Ah.

Crew: I think you all can go ahead.

Maggie: Okay.

Crew: All right.

Art: Well, Chief, appreciate you takin' the time-

Maggie: Yes.

Cecil Smith: Thank you very much, sir.

Art: It was very interesting. Thank you.

Maggie: Thank you so much. It was so nice meeting you.

Art: Good to see you again.

Male: Nice seeing everybody. Thanks again.

Maggie: Nice seeing you. Thank you so [00:32:00] much.

Male: You're welcome.

Male: Good?

Crew: Yep.

Crew: Good?

Crew: Yep.

Crew: Yep.

Crew: Yep.

Art: Um ...

Male: On the old squad?

Cecil Smith: All right? I didn't throw you under the bus too much? (laughs)

Maggie: [crosstalk 00:32:05]

Crew: [crosstalk 00:32:06]

Art: We haven't asked you directly that question.

Cecil Smith: (laughs)

Maggie: I think yes. That's the sense I get.

Art: Yes. I think he has because he has never, ever mentioned that to us.

Crew: We gotta take the mic off you.

Art: Oh.

Crew: Don't forget, don't get that, don't say or do anything you may regret.

Art: You know, the, the other thing, too, was when we interviewed Monahan, he said he heard the dispatch talk to Faith Westman-

Crew: On his way there right now.

Art: ... and was, [00:32:30] that, that-

Crew: I did mostly.

Art: ... Cecil had got there. Had seen the blue lights.

Crew: Did you see our cameraman's sweatshirt?

Art: [crosstalk 00:32:34]

Male: Yes, I did.

Crew: The oldest [crosstalk 00:32:37]

Art: It sounded like they kept her on the line.

Crew: Maybe. Or maybe she called back? I don't remember-

Art: Yeah.

Crew: ... I can't remember right now.

Art: Yeah.

Crew: Whether th-the call was the same call or not. I can't remember. But I know he didn't really talk about-

Art: He has. But you, did you, I know. No, no, no, no. I know. That's interesting because we have a-

Crew: Because that did come up and I think John Scarinza [00:33:00] actually repeated that.

Art: Right. Well, you know, when we interviewed Kathleen-

Crew: Did she [inaudible 00:33:08] that?

Art: She did. But it took us two hours to get to it.

Crew: We were just sayin' about the, you know how Fred has backed off [crosstalk 00:33:15].

Male: Oh, he did. You need to [crosstalk 00:33:17] Scarinza about that, 'cause Scarinza repeated it as [crosstalk 00:33:20].

Crew: Right.

Art: Now Kathleen, when we-

Maggie: Yeah.

Crew: Kathleen. It took you a while to get it from Kathleen, though, right?

Art: It took us, how long did it take us?

Maggie: Oh my god. It took me three and a half hours.

Crew: [00:33:30] Oh, is that right? With her?

Male: Did she finally own that?

Art: And she finally owned the phone call.

Maggie: The phone call, yeah.

Art: And she admitted that she was despondent, right?

Maggie: Yep. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Art: Um, but we couldn't get to the point where she would say that-

Male: Yeah, we think she's out there. She's committed suicide, pretty much, or [crosstalk 00:33:47].

Art: Right. Yeah.

Male: That was said early on and it's documented pretty well in the reports early on. And then he starts to back off on that.

Art: Right.

Male: He does. And then he takes the state police to task for it.

Maggie: Hm.

Art: Right.

Male: You know, it's like well that's the first thing you're sayin'. (laughs)

Art: He did. Right.

Maggie: Right.

Male: [00:34:00] You guys are throwin' that out there first thing.

Maggie: Right.

Male: And, you know, so it's like and then you're mad at the police 'cause we're not considering that maybe somebody just killed her? I mean, it's like you threw it out there. [crosstalk 00:34:09]

Maggie: We do, we do have to ask him that.

Male: Pretty consistent with [crosstalk 00:34:14] what's goin' on in her life.

Art: We do. And we told, we told him we were gonna ask him some tough questions. We, that, that'll be k-kind of like our exit-

Male: How do you fault, how do you fault the police when-

Art: ... we haven't done an exit interview.

Male: ... they, they go to the family and they have two members of the family saying depressed, was in a prior accident, alcohol. Here she is again, looks [00:34:30] like another accident, alcohol, and you're tellin' the police "Maybe she just walked out in the woods and killed herself or died." I mean, like-

Art: Yeah.

Male: ... you know, and you're supposed to [crosstalk 00:34:38].

Maggie: When we follow up and ask Fred questions, can he say that though? 'Cause that's important to say, that how can you fault the police for that? When he said it.

Male: Can you? Yeah, I think you should say that.

Art: Yeah, we can do that. Yeah.

Maggie: I mean that's important for you to say.

Male: 'Cause he was very critical of Scarinza over that.

Art: Right.

Male: Putting that stuff out there, and it's like, well, that is a possibility. It is.

Male: I think that was the first thought that he had.

Male: Right.

Art: Right.

Maggie: Yeah.

Male: No, I think where Fred's criticism [00:35:00] is, well the police limited their, what they did because of that-

Art: Right.

Male: ... but that's not true. There wasn't, you know-

Male: [crosstalk 00:35:05]

Male: ... it, it, it mushrooms as time goes on because it's like, okay, kind of like what Cecil is do, which is it looks like a drunk who leaves so you're kinda limited to what you're doin'-

Art: Right.

Male: ... and then, as time goes on, you get more concerned so you spread it.

Art: Right.

Male: You spread it, you spread it, and you spread it. That makes sense, you know. That's like Cecil said you didn't have 100 people out there searchin' immediately 'cause you thought-

Maggie: Right.

Male: ... it was this, then it's like oh, maybe it's this, this, and this and it spreads. You know? So. But, [00:35:30] I just, you know that's one of the things that's kind of annoying about Fred sometimes it's like, you know, the rewriting of history, which is you don't wanna own that, it's like well, wait a minute, you're pissed at the police when you gave them that information.

Maggie: Yeah.

Male: So they considered that possibility. I mean you can't, you can't say that that possibility isn't, isn't a viable option.

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: I just, I still can't believe he said that. I remember when you heard it you were like "He didn't say that." (laughs) We're like "Oh, no, he"-

Crew: Who said what?

Maggie: The squaw walk.

Art: The squaw walk.

Crew: Yeah. That really shocks me.

Male: I couldn't believe it either when he told me.

Crew: [00:36:00] But he did. He did.

Male: But it's not a, but it's not a, it's not a-

Art: Kathleen too.

Male: And Kathleen, too. But it's not uncommon, you know, that we'll talk to people and it'll go one of two ways, right? You have a suspicious death, most people be like "Oh my god. They've been depressed and da-da-da-da-da," you know, and you're like ... And then there're other people be like "Oh no, no, it could never, ever happen." It's, it's w-one or the other.

Art: Right.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: You know? But you have two family members sayin' basically the same thing, and again-

Art: Immediately after.

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 7

Male: ... when you look at the situation, look at the situation it kinda makes sense, right? Prior accident with dad's car. [00:36:30] He's not happy. Alcohol involved. Now you have another accident. Alcohol involved. So doesn't it make sense that person would take off? You better believe it. And they don't want the cops there? Absolutely.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: Uncommon? No way.

Art: Nah.

Crew: I think the reason I'm in disbelief about Kathleen is because we talked to her and-

Male: But what did it take, how long did it take you to get ...?

Maggie: It took forever. Yeah.

Art: She admitted to the phone call.

Crew: It was a very different story, though. She didn't, she told us she didn't know about that, the Hadley accident.

Maggie: She did say that.

Art: Yeah. [00:37:00] She said she didn't know about the Hadley accident-

Crew: And she said suicide wouldn't have been an option for her so-

Art: She said that that time.

Crew: When [crosstalk 00:37:05]

Art: But she said, but she admitted that the call was an upsetting call that she had with her sister.

Crew: But it took us a long time to get.

Art: It took us two and a half hours.

Maggie: Three plus hours. Yeah.

Male: Why would it take that long to get that?

Maggie: I, yeah.

Crew: Look. [crosstalk 00:37:19]

Art: 'Cause she was s-skirtin' all around it.

Crew: Cecil and Chuck are gonna go out to lunch so can we get that Fred Murray question with Chuck?

Art: [00:37:30] With Chuck, yeah.

Crew: And then, um.

Art: Just to, d-d-did you talk to the family? Did you talk to Fred? Yeah.

Male: I gotta get you guys outta here anyway.

Art: Yeah, I know. I know.

Crew: The, um, the Julie thing, too. We didn't go down [crosstalk 00:37:42]

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: Oh.

Crew: We have to answer that.

Maggie: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Crew: What do you have here? Do you have, do we have Cecil's, um, sound checks and [crosstalk 00:37:51]

Maggie: Did she say n-never, period, or never immediately after the accident? Julie. The police talking to her.

Art: Never, period.

Crew: Art, [00:38:00] did you send the release forms for Cecil Smith and [crosstalk 00:38:03]?

Art: No, I didn't. That's what I had in my hand this mornin'. I didn't send it to 'em.

Crew: Oh, those were, okay, you didn't. Okay.

Art: Yeah.

Male: If you send 'em to me I'll just get 'em to sign 'em.

Art: Okay. All right.

Crew: Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Male: Yeah. Just make sure when you d-do my email it's J-E-F-F-E-R-Y. People will spell correctly, which is [crosstalk 00:38:19]

Crew: [crosstalk 00:38:18]

Art: Yes, I know. Yes, R-E-Y.

Male: And it, and it doesn't get, it won't get kicked back to you. Our system will just delete it and so you'll be like "Why isn't this son-of-a-bitch" [crosstalk 00:38:27]

Art: (laughs)

Maggie: (laughs)

Art: Yeah. It's R-E-Y. [00:38:30] I had that same issue the first time I emailed you. Yeah.

Male: It happens all the time, so ...

Maggie: Okay.

Male: People will be like come on.

Art: Yeah. (laughs)

Male: Before you get started, Art. This, uh, Butch Atwood-

Art: Yeah.

Male: Cecil actually asked Butch to help look for her. Just an FYI.

Art: Okay.

Male: So there was really nothin'-

Maggie: Hm.

Art: Nefarious about [crosstalk 00:38:54].

Male: And, but that's not uncommon. 'Cause of that dialogue he had with, [00:39:00] with Butch. "Hey, you want me to help look for her?" "Yeah."

Art: Okay.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: So it's those little things that ...

Art: No, I know.

Crew: We gotta put your water back on the table, and then ...

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 3

Maggie: What did you make of that?

Cecil Smith: That Fred knew somethin' I didn't know about Maura and her, her mental state, I guess. Um. And when I talked to her sister Kathleen the same day, uh, she told me pretty much the same thing. Uh, M-Maura had had an accident with her father's car while she'd been drinking the, the weekend before, uh. She got mad at Fred, got in another car and took off. [00:22:00] Left Massachusettes and, uh, we think she went in the woods and hid and took a bunch of sleepin' pills and we both think she's dead.

Maggie: Kathleen said that?

Cecil Smith: Kathleen and, so. Now I had the sister and the father both tellin' me that she might be dead. That's when i-i-it got serious, yeah. So. And I think that's probably about the time we asked for help from the state police-

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: ... and Fish and Game I know we contacted for a search. Um. [00:22:30] I don't remember the, uh, the troopers. It might've been, uh, Trooper Hubbard or, or maybe even, uh, Chuck West. I don't know. But that's when, when we figured there's probably somethin' more to this, so ...

Maggie: You know, now, now 13 years later do you still believe suicide could've been something that happened to her?

Cecil Smith: I guess anything's possible. I-I don't know. But if, if her father and her sister think so, I guess.

Maggie: Hm.

Art: [00:23:00] I mean, was there, but, but, you know, you did this, an immediate search of the area and you couldn't see any indication at all-

Cecil Smith: No.

Art: ... of her walking up into the-

Cecil Smith: No. No.

Art: ... into the woods.

Cecil Smith: That, that, that is correct. Yep.

Maggie: Hm. Um, what do you think about all the attention this case has garnered?

Cecil Smith: (laughs)

Maggie: I mean it's really, it's one of the most high-profile-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Maggie: ... at least on the internet, cases.

Cecil Smith: Yeah. Um. I, bas-, basically what, uh, [00:23:30] Mr. West said, a-a lot of people sittin' around lookin' at the internet, like "Oh, yeah. That coulda happened. Yeah. An alien coulda come and grabbed her. Sure." I haven't heard that yet but probably [crosstalk 00:23:41].

Maggie: Oh, it's out there. (laughs)

Art: Oh, we've heard that [crosstalk 00:23:42].

Cecil Smith: (laughs) Oh is it? Sorry. Sorry to ruin your input.

Art: [crosstalk 00:23:46].

Cecil Smith: But yeah. Uh, so you have to run 'em all down and, luckily for me, um, I only had it for a week or so before this, there was so much of that. And, [00:24:00] uh, there was so much, uh, uproar from Fred for the FBI and everybody else to get involved, that the state police volunteered to take it.

Maggie: And why do you feel lucky about that?

Cecil Smith: (laughs) I guess I didn't have to put up with that stuff anymore. I mean 90% of it was BS.

Maggie: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: But you still have to check it out. Yep.

Art: Yeah. How has this, I mean has this case had any effect on you, and-

Maggie: You were the first person there, I mean-

Art: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: No [00:24:30] because I-I know what I did and th-the records show that that's what I did. Um. So, no, I, I was never worried about me personally but, you know, the department, uh, the state police they, well, "You're a bunch of idiots. You can't find this one girl?" Well, sorry. Yeah. (sighs)

Maggie: Yeah.

Art: Does it affect, has it affected the town at all up there? I mean ...

Cecil Smith: Uh, no. I think you have some groups that say, well [00:25:00] "Smith got her, was in the back of the cruiser. Nobody looked there." Or, uh, or, y-you know.

Art: Right.

Cecil Smith: And the other ones will say "No, no. He's a good guy. He would never do that." But, basically no. No. You know, it's just ... you're, you're, uh, drawn away from doin' real work while you're tryin' to follow up the psychic that says she's buried right there.

Art: Right