all 7 comments

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview, Part 2

Cecil Smith: Well, how long did you, was it ...?

Art: Yeah, no, that, to me-

Cecil Smith: ... a week?

Maggie: It was six days.

Cecil Smith: Okay.

Art: ... yeah. To me that's not an [inaudible 00:19:21] amount of time-

Cecil Smith: Well, right. And then if-

Art: ... if you're runnin' from call to call to call to call.

Cecil Smith: Right. And then, then you're, yeah, also one guy on duty.

Art: Right.

Cecil Smith: And the [00:19:30] next day I spent most of that day, or that shift, following up with people on that incident, so ...

Maggie: And, with the accident report, a lot of people point out that the rag in the tailpipe is not mentioned in the accident report.

Cecil Smith: I-it's not in the accident report but that accident report, uh, refers to a, an incident report that's attached to that and that does.

Maggie: [00:20:00] Hm.

Art: There was a reference to a-

Cecil Smith: Right. I mean 'cause the accident report's just a-

Art: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: ... it's just a-

Art: A form. Yeah.

Cecil Smith: ... like when you go to the doctor's office it's name, date, and what we're here for and then he's got the big report behind it that shows all the times.

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: Things he did. Yep.

Maggie: What else you got?

Art: I mean do you have any thoughts at all as to what possibly happened to her? To Maura?

Cecil Smith: I-I don't. [00:20:30] N-none at all. I mean all I know is I never laid eyes on her-

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: ... uh.

Art: Did you ever talk to the family, any of the family members?

Cecil Smith: Fred. I did. The next day I contacted, well I had to do several police departments, Weymouth and, uh, Hanson to get contact information for Fred, and, uh Maura's mother, Laurie. I talked to both of them. Um, Fred, I-I didn't reach him until [00:21:00] later that day because he'd been working in Connecticut and he called me back and I explained it to him and he said "Well, you know, she had an accident a couple days ago. She's all depressed, you know. She might've done the old squaw." Like "What, what's that?" "Well, you know you're depressed and we talked about it before on our hikes, you know, you go out in the woods, you step off the trail, and you die." Like (laughs) "Hello." So [00:21:30] ...

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 4

Cecil Smith: So you dig it up and there's nothin' there. So ...

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: Not sayin' psychics can't do that, but ...

Art: Right.

Cecil Smith: [00:25:30] Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Maggie: You know, you have this opportunity right now to say anything you wanna say to people watching this. Um, is there anything you do wanna say?

Cecil Smith: If they know anything contact the cold case guys. Um. That, that's pretty much it because w-we've got a lot of, lot of information but it hasn't gotten us very far yet, I don't think. So, yeah. If somebody [00:26:00] knows somethin', just, even if it's anonymous, send it in.

Male: Uh, well, since we brought up psychics-

Crew: (laughs)

Art: Oh, god. Allison DuBois?

Maggie: Our favorite.

Art: Wait, did you hear about this? (laughs)

Male: Clears throat.

Male: No, um, th-that goes to like, the to-, the, around the town and around the car accident. Like are there places, and you talked about this [00:26:30] with, um-

Maggie: Hm.

Male: ... uh, you're gonna make me say his name. Todd. Um-

Maggie: Bogardus.

Male: Bogardus.

Art: Yes. Eric [Camper 00:26:37] knows his last name. Um, yeah.

Male: He was talking about dump sites, right?

Art: Right.

Male: Potential dump sites.

Art: Yeah.

Male: How there may be something on that line.

Art: (sighs)

Maggie: Hm.

Male: Like at, you know, being in that area, being in law enforcement where, where kids would go party or whatever [crosstalk 00:26:51].

Art: Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll ask you that question, Cecil. It's, it's, um, I mean you, you're talkin' about a 50 square, square mile area for your PD and I think you're the only, [00:27:00] uh, town in that area that has a police department, right?

Cecil Smith: Full, full-time-

Art: Full-time.

Cecil Smith: ... until you get to Littleton-

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: ... to the north or Lebanon/Hanover south, so, yeah.

Art: So, and I mean-

Cecil Smith: And Lincoln. [crosstalk 00:27:12]

Art: ... we've been, yeah, and Lincoln. We've been up in that area, I mean it's pretty rural in some of the-

Cecil Smith: Yeah.

Art: ... locations.

Cecil Smith: It is.

Art: Uh, as you get out from the center of town-

Cecil Smith: [crosstalk 00:27:20]

Art: ... um, you know, there's a lot of sites up there where you could dump a body.

Cecil Smith: Right. And we ran down [00:27:30] a lot of things, I mean, you talk about young kids and back roads at, you know-

Art: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Cecil Smith: ... we, we'd been out to calls to pick up, uh, ladies underwear, like that's Maura's underwear. So ... (laughs)

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: Do you think that, as you're driving through the area, like "Hm, I wonder if that's a spot"? Do you ever, do you, does she pop into your head, ever?

Cecil Smith: Eh, not as, uh, she used to, but, you know right at this point I just would like to know what happened. If she's on the beach in Cancun or if [00:28:00] she's u-under the snow somewhere, or, I don't know.

Crew: [inaudible 00:28:07]

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 5

Art: That's good, yeah. (laughs) Very good.

Crew: I do have a clarifying question. Um, so it sounds like, from speaking to Fred and Kathleen at the very beginning, um, it sounds like you got a pretty strong indication that Maura may have been despondent and done this [inaudible 00:28:27] a lot.

Cecil Smith: Right.

Crew: Um, but [00:28:30] you, y-y-you know Fred, to this day, is, is talking about the dirt bag who grabbed her.

Cecil Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: Um, so you kept all the possibilities open but, but can you, can you elaborate on that a little bit? Just sort of y-you know, initially we thought it was a suicide and that's when we, when it got serious and we, and we started to get more people involved in the search-

Cecil Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: ... but there were also other, um, y-you know other, other theories on what may have happened to her, including-

Crew: That was, [00:29:00] that was us. That was us, not them.

Maggie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: And that was [crosstalk 00:29:02]

Crew: He, he was only on [crosstalk 00:29:03]

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: We can ask, we can ask Chuck that.

Crew: Yeah. So that was, that was handed off to us so Cecil didn't have anything to do with that part of it. We did.

Crew: All right.

Cecil Smith: Thank you. (laughs)

Maggie: But we're asking Chuck Fred questions. We can ask that.

Crew: Yeah, we can circle back to Fred on that, um-

Maggie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Crew: One, one other thing is just, I don't know if I just, during my coughing fit I missed it, but, um, wh-when you were talking about the alcohol the doors were locked but you, you said there was a can? Was it ...

Crew: Bottle.

Cecil Smith: [crosstalk 00:29:26]

Art: Under the car.

Maggie: He said af-, he did say after it was towed he could see it.

Art: Yeah, we got it.

Crew: [crosstalk 00:29:29] just [00:29:30] like choking myself.

Art: No, we got it.

Maggie: Yep.

Crew: And also he was told at the scene that she smelled of alcohol and was slurring her speech.

Maggie: Yes.

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: Right. You got that in, too. Yeah.

Crew: Leaning, and ...

Art: Right.

Crew: Um, anything else?

Crew: No, that's it.

Cecil Smith: Say you have to talk to Fred about why he thought she was gonna kill herself, I guess. I don't know.

Art: Yeah.

Crew: Did we go over all the, he went to all the neighbor's houses? Then I apologize. [inaudible 00:29:55]

Crew: He said that he-

Cecil Smith: Not that [00:30:00] night.

Crew: Yeah.

Crew: Not that night?

Cecil Smith: No.

Crew: I thought that you did go to the Westman's "Where's the girl?" Um-

Art: I got, I got, I got, I got, w-w-w-w-one question, hopefully y-you know. And, and I know usually the SOP as you go to who makes the 911 call-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: ... and check with them first-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: ... and that's sounds like what you did here.

Cecil Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Art: There was two 911 calls-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Art: ... F-Faith Westman and Butch Atwood-

Cecil Smith: Correct.

Art: ... and you talked to both of them. Do you know that if i-i-i-it, you know, we've heard different [00:30:30] things but is it standard procedure where the 911 operator would keep somebody on the line until, like you responded?

Cecil Smith: A medical emergency it definitely would, yes.

Art: Okay.

Cecil Smith: Um. Something like this, I-I don't know. I-I, you'd have to refer that one, or I'd have to, to the dispatch office. I-I don't know, sir.

Art: Okay.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: In my experience they would know.

Cecil Smith: Yeah.

Art: Okay.

Maggie: Hm. Okay.

Crew: I'm [00:31:00] good.

Maggie: All right.

Crew: Unless you guys have somethin' else?

Art: Nope.

Maggie: No.

Crew: That was everything, I think. Said anything that has come up and he hit everything. Yeah.

Crew: Put it to bed.

Art: Yep.

Maggie: Okay. Yep.

Crew: Take wrap?

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 6

Art: Yeah. We will do that. Cecil, appreciate-

Maggie: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: Thank you, sir.

Art: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Watch out. John's gonna, John's gonna run the boom into your head.

Cecil Smith: Aw. I think that hit me.

Art: (laughs)

Cecil Smith: Do I need my lawyer? (laughs)

Crew: The wrong [00:31:30] kind.

Cecil Smith: Oh, the wrong kind. Oh.

Crew: [crosstalk 00:31:31] Cecil, believe me.

Cecil Smith: Dammit.

Art: That's true. (laughs)

Cecil Smith: I forget [crosstalk 00:31:35]. Yeah, I do.

Crew: [crosstalk 00:31:36] dues.

Cecil Smith: I do remember.

Maggie: (laughs) Ah.

Crew: I think you all can go ahead.

Maggie: Okay.

Crew: All right.

Art: Well, Chief, appreciate you takin' the time-

Maggie: Yes.

Cecil Smith: Thank you very much, sir.

Art: It was very interesting. Thank you.

Maggie: Thank you so much. It was so nice meeting you.

Art: Good to see you again.

Male: Nice seeing everybody. Thanks again.

Maggie: Nice seeing you. Thank you so [00:32:00] much.

Male: You're welcome.

Male: Good?

Crew: Yep.

Crew: Good?

Crew: Yep.

Crew: Yep.

Crew: Yep.

Art: Um ...

Male: On the old squad?

Cecil Smith: All right? I didn't throw you under the bus too much? (laughs)

Maggie: [crosstalk 00:32:05]

Crew: [crosstalk 00:32:06]

Art: We haven't asked you directly that question.

Cecil Smith: (laughs)

Maggie: I think yes. That's the sense I get.

Art: Yes. I think he has because he has never, ever mentioned that to us.

Crew: We gotta take the mic off you.

Art: Oh.

Crew: Don't forget, don't get that, don't say or do anything you may regret.

Art: You know, the, the other thing, too, was when we interviewed Monahan, he said he heard the dispatch talk to Faith Westman-

Crew: On his way there right now.

Art: ... and was, [00:32:30] that, that-

Crew: I did mostly.

Art: ... Cecil had got there. Had seen the blue lights.

Crew: Did you see our cameraman's sweatshirt?

Art: [crosstalk 00:32:34]

Male: Yes, I did.

Crew: The oldest [crosstalk 00:32:37]

Art: It sounded like they kept her on the line.

Crew: Maybe. Or maybe she called back? I don't remember-

Art: Yeah.

Crew: ... I can't remember right now.

Art: Yeah.

Crew: Whether th-the call was the same call or not. I can't remember. But I know he didn't really talk about-

Art: He has. But you, did you, I know. No, no, no, no. I know. That's interesting because we have a-

Crew: Because that did come up and I think John Scarinza [00:33:00] actually repeated that.

Art: Right. Well, you know, when we interviewed Kathleen-

Crew: Did she [inaudible 00:33:08] that?

Art: She did. But it took us two hours to get to it.

Crew: We were just sayin' about the, you know how Fred has backed off [crosstalk 00:33:15].

Male: Oh, he did. You need to [crosstalk 00:33:17] Scarinza about that, 'cause Scarinza repeated it as [crosstalk 00:33:20].

Crew: Right.

Art: Now Kathleen, when we-

Maggie: Yeah.

Crew: Kathleen. It took you a while to get it from Kathleen, though, right?

Art: It took us, how long did it take us?

Maggie: Oh my god. It took me three and a half hours.

Crew: [00:33:30] Oh, is that right? With her?

Male: Did she finally own that?

Art: And she finally owned the phone call.

Maggie: The phone call, yeah.

Art: And she admitted that she was despondent, right?

Maggie: Yep. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Art: Um, but we couldn't get to the point where she would say that-

Male: Yeah, we think she's out there. She's committed suicide, pretty much, or [crosstalk 00:33:47].

Art: Right. Yeah.

Male: That was said early on and it's documented pretty well in the reports early on. And then he starts to back off on that.

Art: Right.

Male: He does. And then he takes the state police to task for it.

Maggie: Hm.

Art: Right.

Male: You know, it's like well that's the first thing you're sayin'. (laughs)

Art: He did. Right.

Maggie: Right.

Male: [00:34:00] You guys are throwin' that out there first thing.

Maggie: Right.

Male: And, you know, so it's like and then you're mad at the police 'cause we're not considering that maybe somebody just killed her? I mean, it's like you threw it out there. [crosstalk 00:34:09]

Maggie: We do, we do have to ask him that.

Male: Pretty consistent with [crosstalk 00:34:14] what's goin' on in her life.

Art: We do. And we told, we told him we were gonna ask him some tough questions. We, that, that'll be k-kind of like our exit-

Male: How do you fault, how do you fault the police when-

Art: ... we haven't done an exit interview.

Male: ... they, they go to the family and they have two members of the family saying depressed, was in a prior accident, alcohol. Here she is again, looks [00:34:30] like another accident, alcohol, and you're tellin' the police "Maybe she just walked out in the woods and killed herself or died." I mean, like-

Art: Yeah.

Male: ... you know, and you're supposed to [crosstalk 00:34:38].

Maggie: When we follow up and ask Fred questions, can he say that though? 'Cause that's important to say, that how can you fault the police for that? When he said it.

Male: Can you? Yeah, I think you should say that.

Art: Yeah, we can do that. Yeah.

Maggie: I mean that's important for you to say.

Male: 'Cause he was very critical of Scarinza over that.

Art: Right.

Male: Putting that stuff out there, and it's like, well, that is a possibility. It is.

Male: I think that was the first thought that he had.

Male: Right.

Art: Right.

Maggie: Yeah.

Male: No, I think where Fred's criticism [00:35:00] is, well the police limited their, what they did because of that-

Art: Right.

Male: ... but that's not true. There wasn't, you know-

Male: [crosstalk 00:35:05]

Male: ... it, it, it mushrooms as time goes on because it's like, okay, kind of like what Cecil is do, which is it looks like a drunk who leaves so you're kinda limited to what you're doin'-

Art: Right.

Male: ... and then, as time goes on, you get more concerned so you spread it.

Art: Right.

Male: You spread it, you spread it, and you spread it. That makes sense, you know. That's like Cecil said you didn't have 100 people out there searchin' immediately 'cause you thought-

Maggie: Right.

Male: ... it was this, then it's like oh, maybe it's this, this, and this and it spreads. You know? So. But, [00:35:30] I just, you know that's one of the things that's kind of annoying about Fred sometimes it's like, you know, the rewriting of history, which is you don't wanna own that, it's like well, wait a minute, you're pissed at the police when you gave them that information.

Maggie: Yeah.

Male: So they considered that possibility. I mean you can't, you can't say that that possibility isn't, isn't a viable option.

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: I just, I still can't believe he said that. I remember when you heard it you were like "He didn't say that." (laughs) We're like "Oh, no, he"-

Crew: Who said what?

Maggie: The squaw walk.

Art: The squaw walk.

Crew: Yeah. That really shocks me.

Male: I couldn't believe it either when he told me.

Crew: [00:36:00] But he did. He did.

Male: But it's not a, but it's not a, it's not a-

Art: Kathleen too.

Male: And Kathleen, too. But it's not uncommon, you know, that we'll talk to people and it'll go one of two ways, right? You have a suspicious death, most people be like "Oh my god. They've been depressed and da-da-da-da-da," you know, and you're like ... And then there're other people be like "Oh no, no, it could never, ever happen." It's, it's w-one or the other.

Art: Right.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: You know? But you have two family members sayin' basically the same thing, and again-

Art: Immediately after.

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 7

Male: ... when you look at the situation, look at the situation it kinda makes sense, right? Prior accident with dad's car. [00:36:30] He's not happy. Alcohol involved. Now you have another accident. Alcohol involved. So doesn't it make sense that person would take off? You better believe it. And they don't want the cops there? Absolutely.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: Uncommon? No way.

Art: Nah.

Crew: I think the reason I'm in disbelief about Kathleen is because we talked to her and-

Male: But what did it take, how long did it take you to get ...?

Maggie: It took forever. Yeah.

Art: She admitted to the phone call.

Crew: It was a very different story, though. She didn't, she told us she didn't know about that, the Hadley accident.

Maggie: She did say that.

Art: Yeah. [00:37:00] She said she didn't know about the Hadley accident-

Crew: And she said suicide wouldn't have been an option for her so-

Art: She said that that time.

Crew: When [crosstalk 00:37:05]

Art: But she said, but she admitted that the call was an upsetting call that she had with her sister.

Crew: But it took us a long time to get.

Art: It took us two and a half hours.

Maggie: Three plus hours. Yeah.

Male: Why would it take that long to get that?

Maggie: I, yeah.

Crew: Look. [crosstalk 00:37:19]

Art: 'Cause she was s-skirtin' all around it.

Crew: Cecil and Chuck are gonna go out to lunch so can we get that Fred Murray question with Chuck?

Art: [00:37:30] With Chuck, yeah.

Crew: And then, um.

Art: Just to, d-d-did you talk to the family? Did you talk to Fred? Yeah.

Male: I gotta get you guys outta here anyway.

Art: Yeah, I know. I know.

Crew: The, um, the Julie thing, too. We didn't go down [crosstalk 00:37:42]

Art: Yeah.

Maggie: Oh.

Crew: We have to answer that.

Maggie: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Crew: What do you have here? Do you have, do we have Cecil's, um, sound checks and [crosstalk 00:37:51]

Maggie: Did she say n-never, period, or never immediately after the accident? Julie. The police talking to her.

Art: Never, period.

Crew: Art, [00:38:00] did you send the release forms for Cecil Smith and [crosstalk 00:38:03]?

Art: No, I didn't. That's what I had in my hand this mornin'. I didn't send it to 'em.

Crew: Oh, those were, okay, you didn't. Okay.

Art: Yeah.

Male: If you send 'em to me I'll just get 'em to sign 'em.

Art: Okay. All right.

Crew: Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Male: Yeah. Just make sure when you d-do my email it's J-E-F-F-E-R-Y. People will spell correctly, which is [crosstalk 00:38:19]

Crew: [crosstalk 00:38:18]

Art: Yes, I know. Yes, R-E-Y.

Male: And it, and it doesn't get, it won't get kicked back to you. Our system will just delete it and so you'll be like "Why isn't this son-of-a-bitch" [crosstalk 00:38:27]

Art: (laughs)

Maggie: (laughs)

Art: Yeah. It's R-E-Y. [00:38:30] I had that same issue the first time I emailed you. Yeah.

Male: It happens all the time, so ...

Maggie: Okay.

Male: People will be like come on.

Art: Yeah. (laughs)

Male: Before you get started, Art. This, uh, Butch Atwood-

Art: Yeah.

Male: Cecil actually asked Butch to help look for her. Just an FYI.

Art: Okay.

Male: So there was really nothin'-

Maggie: Hm.

Art: Nefarious about [crosstalk 00:38:54].

Male: And, but that's not uncommon. 'Cause of that dialogue he had with, [00:39:00] with Butch. "Hey, you want me to help look for her?" "Yeah."

Art: Okay.

Maggie: Hm.

Male: So it's those little things that ...

Art: No, I know.

Crew: We gotta put your water back on the table, and then ...

[–]MauraMurrayEvidence[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cecil Smith Interview Part 3

Maggie: What did you make of that?

Cecil Smith: That Fred knew somethin' I didn't know about Maura and her, her mental state, I guess. Um. And when I talked to her sister Kathleen the same day, uh, she told me pretty much the same thing. Uh, M-Maura had had an accident with her father's car while she'd been drinking the, the weekend before, uh. She got mad at Fred, got in another car and took off. [00:22:00] Left Massachusettes and, uh, we think she went in the woods and hid and took a bunch of sleepin' pills and we both think she's dead.

Maggie: Kathleen said that?

Cecil Smith: Kathleen and, so. Now I had the sister and the father both tellin' me that she might be dead. That's when i-i-it got serious, yeah. So. And I think that's probably about the time we asked for help from the state police-

Maggie: Hm.

Cecil Smith: ... and Fish and Game I know we contacted for a search. Um. [00:22:30] I don't remember the, uh, the troopers. It might've been, uh, Trooper Hubbard or, or maybe even, uh, Chuck West. I don't know. But that's when, when we figured there's probably somethin' more to this, so ...

Maggie: You know, now, now 13 years later do you still believe suicide could've been something that happened to her?

Cecil Smith: I guess anything's possible. I-I don't know. But if, if her father and her sister think so, I guess.

Maggie: Hm.

Art: [00:23:00] I mean, was there, but, but, you know, you did this, an immediate search of the area and you couldn't see any indication at all-

Cecil Smith: No.

Art: ... of her walking up into the-

Cecil Smith: No. No.

Art: ... into the woods.

Cecil Smith: That, that, that is correct. Yep.

Maggie: Hm. Um, what do you think about all the attention this case has garnered?

Cecil Smith: (laughs)

Maggie: I mean it's really, it's one of the most high-profile-

Cecil Smith: Right.

Maggie: ... at least on the internet, cases.

Cecil Smith: Yeah. Um. I, bas-, basically what, uh, [00:23:30] Mr. West said, a-a lot of people sittin' around lookin' at the internet, like "Oh, yeah. That coulda happened. Yeah. An alien coulda come and grabbed her. Sure." I haven't heard that yet but probably [crosstalk 00:23:41].

Maggie: Oh, it's out there. (laughs)

Art: Oh, we've heard that [crosstalk 00:23:42].

Cecil Smith: (laughs) Oh is it? Sorry. Sorry to ruin your input.

Art: [crosstalk 00:23:46].

Cecil Smith: But yeah. Uh, so you have to run 'em all down and, luckily for me, um, I only had it for a week or so before this, there was so much of that. And, [00:24:00] uh, there was so much, uh, uproar from Fred for the FBI and everybody else to get involved, that the state police volunteered to take it.

Maggie: And why do you feel lucky about that?

Cecil Smith: (laughs) I guess I didn't have to put up with that stuff anymore. I mean 90% of it was BS.

Maggie: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: But you still have to check it out. Yep.

Art: Yeah. How has this, I mean has this case had any effect on you, and-

Maggie: You were the first person there, I mean-

Art: Yeah.

Cecil Smith: No [00:24:30] because I-I know what I did and th-the records show that that's what I did. Um. So, no, I, I was never worried about me personally but, you know, the department, uh, the state police they, well, "You're a bunch of idiots. You can't find this one girl?" Well, sorry. Yeah. (sighs)

Maggie: Yeah.

Art: Does it affect, has it affected the town at all up there? I mean ...

Cecil Smith: Uh, no. I think you have some groups that say, well [00:25:00] "Smith got her, was in the back of the cruiser. Nobody looked there." Or, uh, or, y-you know.

Art: Right.

Cecil Smith: And the other ones will say "No, no. He's a good guy. He would never do that." But, basically no. No. You know, it's just ... you're, you're, uh, drawn away from doin' real work while you're tryin' to follow up the psychic that says she's buried right there.

Art: Right