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Witness A’s Interview
Alex Clogston: My name is Alex C, someone interested in this case. And I've known uh the the person referred to as Witness A for quite a few years since I was in high School. I was friends with your son. And kind of getting back into the Maura Murray case, what Witness A saw always struck me as one of the most potentially important things and one of the most immediately dismissed things. And when I had heard that you had made some claims that were very similar it uh, it kind of all pieced together for me. And I spoke with you on Facebook and kind of confirmed that you are the person that saw that. And I guess my first question would be whether or not you were willing to uh say your name?
Karen McNamara: Yeah at this...
Alex Clogston: I don't know if you have to say your last name necessarily.
Karen McNamara: Ummm hmmm. Ummm hmmm.
Alex Clogston: Because because it can be confirmed by the family that, just on visual, that you have met them. So they know who you are but I was just curious if you were interested in using your name?
Karen McNamara: At this point I will. Its Karen Mc Namara. Ummm hmmm.
Alex Clogston: OK, so there is a name to Witness A.
Karen McNamara: But I was hesitant for quite a while.
Alex Clogston: And what what made you hesitant?
Karen McNamara: Because I feel that what I saw um could be could indicate that there was some kind of a cover-up with the police. And it made me afraid of the police. What I saw.
Alex Clogston: Um I know we’ve all kind of read you know the same account of it but would you mind going over what you did see that night starting from the appointment you had that night?
Karen McNamara: OK. I um I worked as a counselor and outpatient at uh Friendship House in Woodsville. And when I left work that night as I always do I called home to leave a message that I was on my way. Because I go across Route 112 where there's um no cell service. And uh a lot of, you know, the forest. And then I always make a phone call when I get to the Beaver Pond to say I'm coming down the hill or um you know that I've made it across safely. And um, that night I believe that I had a cancellation and I left about 7:15. And when I was going up uh the road past the hospital I think it's Swiftwater Road. Um a police car came up behind me with its lights on, it was car 001 and, it passed me.
Alex Clogston: Now when you say car 001, was this a sedan or an SUV?
Karen McNamara: It was SUV! It was not a sedan. It was an SUV. Um huh
Alex Clogston: So your just kind of using the term car to say vehicle?
Karen McNamara: Yes.
Alex Clogston: Which is kind of one of the criticisms online, continue.
Karen McNamara: Yes, yes. And then it passed me with its lights on and it continued on up the road. And then after I'd gone down Goose Lane and came out onto 112 I went to take a right a right by the store there. And Car 001 passed me again which I thought was kind of curious that um the same police car still with his lights on and still going fast. And he went up um 112 headed East as I was. And I know there's a place there where the it's like rolling hills. And like the police lights I could just see flash on and off. Because it, you know, we were going over hills at different times and he got ahead of me. When I got to the corner by the Weathered Barn, you know, um, that sharp curve there I saw the police car the SUV 001. And it looked like it was nose-to-nose with another car, um a dark colored sedan.
Karen McNamara: And it didn't appear to me as though that car was really in an accident. It appeared as though it was parked on the wrong side of the road. And when I went past it I stopped um like in front of Butch Atwood's house. And I had an an instinctual feeling that I should help. And I turned around and I looked. And I sat there and I thought about it. And it didn't seem like it made sense for me to get out and go back because my cell phone didn't work. The police were already there and it didn't even look like the bad accident. Um, that was just my impression. Uh and then as I started uh again down the hill. I know there was a car that passed me right there. And then I went on 112 East towards Lincoln where I lived. And about when I got to the Beaver Pond, that's when you first get service again, I um made a phone call which I normally do to confirm that I've made it across the wilderness. Before I come down the hill into town. Um cell service is very sparse coming down that hill and into town. It was like right up by the Beaver Pond.
Karen McNamara: And um I remember talking to my dad that night. And I said, um I said, that "I was passed by the same police car twice." And I thought that was kind of humorous. And he said “How do you know it was the same one?” I said "It was car 001", and we kind of laughed about how a small town might only have one car, you know. Uh that's why it's so memorable to me that was 001.
Alex Clogston: The number of the car?
Karen McNamara: Um hmmm. Yeah. And um uh and definitely an SUV. Uh, and and that’s all. Uh And it was you know I saw a clip on TV that car that I had seen was uh the woman was missing. And I saw you know a few things on TV about it. And then I heard an urging that said even if you think you saw nothing you should call and report that to the police.
Alex Clogston: So this is a couple days afterward in the news and stuff?
Karen McNamara: Um hmmm. It might have been a day or two after, um hmm.
Alex Clogston: I think John said it was Wednesday before they first went on TV?
John Smith: Wednesday I think. Maybe even Thursday morning was the first reports. So probably Thursday.
Alex Clogston: So a few days later you saw this. So that day you called which agency?
Karen McNamara: I called I called um the Haverhill police department. I remember you know, very clearly I was sitting at my desk in my office and I called and told them I'm just calling to say I didn't see anything. I didn't see anybody walking. I didn't see any cars parked along the road. I didn't see anything except for car 001 that passed me twice. And was there at the scene when I drove by.
Alex Clogston: And this is the first... your first police call...
Karen McNamara: Um hmmm.
Alex Clogston: ...to Haverhill PD?
Karen McNamara: Um hmmm.
Alex Clogston: And had you ever reported this to New Hampshire State Police?
Karen McNamara: No, not at that time.
Alex Clogston: Just to Haverhill?
Karen McNamara: Um hmmm.
Alex Clogston: Sooo...
Karen McNamara: And they they said to me "Are you sure you saw Car 001?" And I said "Absolutely, without a doubt." You know and uh and hung up. A little while later I got a phone call from the police department and they said "We understand that you called and said that you saw car 001." And I said "Yes that’s what I saw." They said "Are you sure it was car 001?" And I said "Absolutely."
Alex Clogston: And about how long after your initial phone call was this phone call back? Do you remember?
Karen McNamara: I would guess within an hour.
Alex Clogston: Oh so... it was the same afternoon? Or morning?
Karen McNamara: I don't know for sure, but I would guess within an hour they called back.
Alex Clogston: And when they called back did they give a name of who it was calling?
Karen McNamara: If they did I don’t remember.
Alex Clogston: You don’t remember.
Alex Clogston: And they... Do you remember specifically how they worded the vehicle you saw was out of commission that night? Do you remember...?