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Original RecordsTranscript of Fred Murray Interview With Erin Larkin (self.MauraMurrayEvidence)

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Interview Part 1

Section 1

News caption: "Fred Murray wants his daughter back and if he can't have that he wants answers..."

News caption: "Last seen one year ago..."

News caption: "She vanished eight years ago..."

News caption: "Its been ten long years..."

Fred Murray: "...and not a thing has changed. I started out on the first day I got there, asking for the FBI to come in and take a look at the case. I'm still asking for the FBI."

Erinn Larkin: Welcome back, I am Erinn. I recently had the opportunity or really the honor of speaking with Maura's father Fred Murray who was nice enough to spend an entire afternoon answering every single one of my three pages of questions. So, over the next few episodes I'll be playing back the recording of our conversation. I want to give a huge thank you to Mr. Murray for his time and for sharing his knowledge about the case. And I also want to thank Julie for facilitating everything.

Erinn Larkin: A lot of the discussion in this episode surrounds the six part Oxygen series that concluded in October. And Mr. Murray shares his thoughts and opinions on the show including some of the things he liked and disliked as well as some of the things he would like to clarify. As a disclaimer I just want to stress the point that criticism of specific elements of the show should not be misconstrued as an overall denunciation the show.

Erinn Larkin: I'm only speaking for myself here, but I think Mr. Murray should have the right to voice his opinion, free from any fear that his words can be used as ammunition to incite or provoke personal feuds or agendas that ultimately divert attention away from the case.

Erinn Larkin: Beyond that some of the other topics include the background of the A-frame house, what he knows about the party at Sara Alfieri's on the Saturday night prior and some of the suspicious individuals that have been brought to his attention over the years.

Erinn Larkin: I'll be back at the end of the episode with a few brief notes about some of the topics mentioned and Ethan will be back with me in a few episodes to help follow up with a more thorough review of some of the new information. So with that, here is part one of my conversation with Fred Murray.

Start Interview

Erinn Larkin: I think the Oxygen show cleared up a lot of the rumors that were out there for a long time, but I guess my first question is are there any misconceptions out there that still exist and that you'd like to see clarified?

Fred Murray: Right off the bat, all I've heard about from the cops they started on this early and stuck with it and it was their mantra: she went into the woods walked into the woods. I thought no she didn't walk into the woods because if she walked into the woods, there would be foot prints because there was two feet of snow.

Erinn Larkin: Plus the dog trail they did made it seem pretty unlikely that she walked into the woods.

Fred Murray: That's true. We didn't know that at the time, you know. But I was right there and talked to the guy Bogardus that was directing it. Right in the middle of it. Right at there at their their headquarters, uh where they were parked on the side of the road. There's a big clearing all of the searches start there. That was headquarters for the search and it right down where 112 just right between where the two uh 116's one South and one North uh branch off 112. There is a big clearing with a path at the end of it into the woods. They were all parked there. That's where I was parked because I was searching in the area myself. I didn't know they were there.

Fred Murray: And there's Bogardus. And I talked to him and he described what they were doing from way back way up to the height of land he called it. And that's the search they did 12 or 13 miles whatever it was. But uh they came up with nothing there. And uh I was really glad to see that last episode or whatever episode it was when Bogardus said there was no chance she went into the woods. Because that is what they were hanging their hat on.

Fred Murray: And the reason for it, it came coming back and back and back is the old squaw walk. The old squaw walk is the second half of the statement that I made. You never ever hear the first half. They were talking to me about "well she must have walked into the woods"..."It uh, it happens Fred and nobody understands why" and "its a combination of circum...blah blah blah."

Fred Murray: I said "She didn't walk in the woods. She would never do it. That's not the type her personality she has. Na not even gunna go look. There was no sense and she absolutely did not do that." And then they said "well she could of, she could of" uh "did she ever discuss it or something?" No she never discussed anything like that. Its just its a non factor" And uh he's "well if she did what would she do?" I said "she didn't" "where did she go?" "she didn't. She did not do that." I was getting irritated with them. I said "She never talked about suicide" uh "its never been a uh topic in conversation."

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Section 2

Fred Murray: But then I don't know exactly why I mentioned this I said we saw a movie once. It I think it was called Cheyenne Autumn and it was tough on uh the Indians. Winter came and they filed into the woods you know. They all, the whole tribe. And uh the real old squaws are real old old people when they are at the end of the line they knew they would be a drag on the column they would just get last and they just drop off end and die in snow in the woods when it was their time, you know. And uh that was the old squaw walk. I said "But she didn't do that. That...that did not happen." That's the only time that the term suicide came up. And uh that...that was the context of it. So all I've heard ever since is the old squaw walk.

Erinn Larkin: So did they, sorry to interrupt, but did they push you?

Fred Murray: Yeah

Erinn Larkin: Sort of..yeah that's what it sounds like.

Fred Murray: Yes, yes they kept after me. Uh, suicide was the thing because that if...if a bad guy grabbed her they get some explaining to do. They got they got a case on their hands you know. But uh which uh what happened. But if she walked into the woods to commit suicide they "Well what are we going to do about that Mr. Murray? We can't help that you know. We'll find try to her for you, but uh we can stop people from doing that."

Fred Murray: And no responsibility. Plus the background the setting is is no crime in New Hampshire. Because it is is horrible for business and the whole economy up there is uh dependent on tourism. On three seasons huh you know. And you cannot mess that up. And you never hear of major crime in New Hampshire. Maybe since this uh but not before that. It was everything was brushed under the rug you know. They come up here and they they got lost in the woods or they committed suicide in the woods. All of these uh missing people. And there are a ton of missing people. Eh, a lot of women you know.

Erinn Larkin: Ummm hmmm

Fred Murray: Of course. And and that's what it is you know. And uh you really get nowhere talking to them they they've got their mind made up on that and that's still way out. That was the context. That was the setting. That's what I had to deal with the whole time. That's the background.

Fred Murray: And that's the beauty of Bogardus finally coming out in that program. That is probably the major event of of the Oxygen program is the debunking of the um suicide theory, the walk into the woods theory. It did not happen. Its not her personality. Way too tough. She'd fight right to the bloody end. She'd run and fight. That's what Maura would do. You couldn't catch her anyway. I couldn't catch her. I was in great shape but I had no shot you know. She's getting away. In a short distance, I would have to catch her within the first three feet. Fifty yards I'm not gunna get her you know. Anything longer than that and she's long gone. And these slobs aren't going to catch Maura. Ha.

Erinn Larkin: I agree.

Fred Murray: (Laughs)

Fred Murray: And uh so it it would have been uh this huge, this huge fight. Alright but that's what I got to say about the old Squaw walk. That's how it came about. They're trying to drag something out of me you know. The old squaw walk was just a description of the only time the concept of suicide ever came up. Was when they were hounding me and I and I told him the old squaw walk was that movie was the only time um have the term suicide or the the concept of suicide as as a topic. And it wasn't a topic. It was just fleeting part of the movie. And I never should've said it.

Fred Murray: I didn't know it was gunna be misused like this you know. But uh, when you mention the old squaw walk it takes it makes it sound they're trying to make this sound like I'm saying that she could of, would, maybe did and this is how she did it commit suicide. Its not the case at all. It never happened in that context. And its never anything I believed. And right from the get go I said that is out. But every time you hear old squaw walk you do not hear the first part of my statement. The program lets 'em get away with it. I explained this to the program you know. But especially uh Cecil. And to see him cackling smirking to himself about the old squaw walk it was horrible you know. But I can't do anything about it, but I wish I could.

Erinn Larkin: Ummm hmmm. Yeah. I thought it was interesting that two points that Smith made on his appearance were that she was drunk and she was suicidal. (Laughs) That's it.

Fred Murray: Yeah. Neither one. Neither one.

Erinn Larkin: In other words its not my fault.

Fred Murray: That's right. That's it. The uh the exculpation of the police officers was the mission on this program you know. Those guys have never spoken in public. The program put enough pressure on em' to make them come out there. That's another good thing about the program. Those are the two best things that happen about that program. They were they were long overdue and needed and the program induced them to have to do that. So that's uh um I'll be forever grateful to the program for for that.

Fred Murray: OK. Another thing, in the program Maggie said it was five and a half years before Fred talked to police. That really exasperates me because I've talked to the police from the get go. Over and over I was up to their barracks or whatever you want to call the state police headquarters um in Bethlehem I guess, uh, several times talking to em'. And they'd have the room full of the top brass you know in the their uniforms you know with all kinds of stuff hanging.

Fred Murray: And they put me in a chair and I'm completely surrounded. Everywhere I looked you know. This is pressure. And then they are assuring me that they're gonna get it they take care of everything... "Don't you worry Mr. Murray" and to make me think of something is done about it. All the time, the only thing that was being done about it, was to keep their behinds out of it you know. So I talked to the police very early I talked to them a lot. But...

Erinn Larkin: You sued them for not talking to you.

Fred Murray: Yeah. (Laughs) And so and so for Maggie, for Maggie to come out and say for five and a half years you know Renner comes out and says two and a half years Fred didn't talk to police. Its such garbage. I was all over the police. I was after them and in an accusatory way you know. Its uh, I'm not afraid of em.' You don't have to be afraid if you're not hiding anything. And so and they might be. Usually its the cops after the guy. This time it was the guy after the cops you know.

Fred Murray: But it it is so frustrating and annoying. But then to have to listen to this. Which is just uh, that's twice as long. More than twice as long as Renner's claiming I didn't talk. So that's worse than Renner. Twice as bad. Uh you can see why I'm upset about it. So that basically rots me you know. To be a little crude. Its a term from way back in the old days. Uh that rots me...those guys when we were little kids (Laughs) uh back in the 50's that rots me. Anyway - but five and a half years I want to stress that point that is such pure junk. The next thing the car its made out to be the car accident put a heavy financial burden on me. Um it did not put an uh in insurmountable financial burden on me. With the job I had that time. I've never had a job before or since uh where you can make in my field that much money. Twice as much as anybody who is the average staff check back home was making. Because of the extra stuff they give ya. The the agency enters into a contract with the hospital who pays a lot of money. And they keep a lions share but there there still is a big chunk. And they gave me a travel allowance that was beyond any belief. All kinds of allowances and they put me up in a hotel you know. And I had money saved you know. It was was not a crushing load. And then then insurance paid for it. So its uh I paid five hundred bucks to get that car repaired. And the pressure was off that day because uh the car place was going to give me a loaner. There was no financial strain. I thought it was going to be covered. And I found out for sure a day later. So there was no pressure on me for that you know. I wasn't howling.

Fred Murray: I was uh irritated when it first happened because I'm in Amherst. I've got to be back in Connecticut for my job the next day. How am I gunna do that? I've got a contract job and they are paying me very well. I had taken the job in December or something and here it is February. My point is that I had to get back the next day. So I was not uh out out of control mad or anything like that. And as soon as I I realized that I could get it fixed my big problem was how am I gettin' back to Connecticut? Because I've got this responsibility. I must discharge my responsibility. How am I gunna do that? And now here is the answer. Here is how you're gunna do it Fred with our free loaner. We'll fix your car take this loaner and then I'm um covered with insurance. The pressure was off. It was off. There was no enragement you know. It was just, at this point it was just mild irritation. The last thing I said to Maura was "Don't worry Maura its gunna be taken care of uh there is no lasting damage here" its uh, I tried to comfort her you know. That that's worst thing. I thought to myself. If this kid has never done anything that caused me any problems in her entire life so that's all a kid ever does uh I'm way ahead of the game. That was my thinking. And that's what I that's what I said to anyone that wanted to know. And that's the story on that. So, it uh, important for me to get that out you know. 'Cause that's a misconception. Fred really really reamed her out. He didn't, you know. I wasn't mad at her, she was a kid. If she was doing stuff like that all the time... but she'd never did anything, never. But anyway. Its important that you know that.

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Section 3

Erinn Larkin: Is there an anything you know or can share about the dorm party that was supposedly at Sara Alfieri's house Saturday night ah or anything else any other information from Kate and Sara?

Fred Murray: Kate and Sara both told me that they do not know why Maura left. I don't know what to make of uh uh Sara. Sara had three friends. Her cousin was there some guy who brought two friends at the dorm party. And I could get nothing from Sara. Sara told me that she was asleep the whole time. But there were three guys there. And I wanna know who they were and what about them. And what their possible participation was. Of course that was that was Saturday night and Maura's gone on uh Monday. Uh but did any of these birds have anything to do with anything. And I don't know who they are. And I wanna talk to them 'cause I wanna find out more about that party night Saturday night. And incidentally I only talked to Sarah once. I called her. She told me I was asleep the whole time Mr. Murray and I don't have any idea what happened you know. So obviously if she knows she's not telling me. That story sounds unlikely that she's asleep the whole time. Anyway that's my only uh interaction with Sarah. But her three her relative and her his uh two buddies are guys I wanna talk to.

Erinn Larkin: She didn't tell you who they were?

Fred Murray: No. No and I think it was Kate who told me, Kate Markopolis who told the three guys were Sara's cousins uh one was Sara's cousin and so that's a story on that and as I understand it.

Erinn Larkin: Eh, Kate didn't remember the names of the the three guys?

Fred Murray: No. No. So anyway that's part of the case and you should know that. Those are three guys that should be talked to.

Erinn Larkin: Do we know anything else about these guys?

Fred Murray: No.

Erinn Larkin: So, I uh sort of discounted the Umass party. I thought it was like a salacious kind of Renner being just interested in what young women do at parties but... that's kind of surprising.

Fred Murray: Yeah. Well and even so it was Saturd... it was Saturday night too. And Maura left Monday you know.

Erinn Larkin: Right, but I don't know why she wouldn't just tell you. Maybe she has her reasons she doesn't want them to be crucified in the media. But I don't think that's a very... that's not a good enough reason not to tell you in my opinion.

Fred Murray: Well its ummm... I believe Kate she was actually Maura's friend. Sara wasn't. Sara was just someone that worked in a place where Maura worked too. But uh Kate was the one Maura hung around with. And uh, I think Kate would've told me. She's talking to her her buddies father you know. I'm not haranguing pressuring her. I just talkin'. And if... if you can help me Kate please do it. Let help me out help Maura. Help me help Maura, you know. And she just she'd have nothing to nothing to offer. She would've I think.

Erinn Larkin: I think so.

Fred Murray: You can read people. You um, I just. I think I would've been able to tell if uh she was holding it back. But I, eh, uh, I picked up absolutely no no sense of that whatsoever. I thought this girl will help and uh, that that she she didn't know. I believe her. But uh, Maura didn't go to Butson's or McDonalds like uh Renner says or Canada or any of that stuff. She wasn't with two other people blondes two blondes. Those girls from school aren't blondes. That's Kate's got really dark hair. That never happened. I went down and talked to the people at Butson's and they had no story at all. They were confused and who said what. And uh they have a camera that goes down the middle they don't have they couldn't produce that. There was just nothing nothing to chase. They had nobody could tell a straight story. Nobody had anything worth listening to to say. But with these two other women with her you know. There no such thing.

Fred Murray: OK another thing I'm um supposed to be talking about the program here. And at one point Maggie asked me about sexually assaulting my daughter. Uh want a cheap shot that is. Even the cops can't ask me about that. What a cheap ploy... a cheap shot for ratings. I've re... It really rots me to death that uh... You gunna take uh... what else can you call, but a cheap shot like that, you know. So you there is good and there is bad about that program. I have to take it 'cause I want to go from, as I said, from a small little cult type of status to something broad. It will run on its own you know and so it will just keep mushrooming and steamrolling. That's what I'm trying to set up. To make it so big that the cops are forced to come out and talk and it worked. That got the cops out in public and they never would've done it.

Erinn Larkin: Right (Laughs)

Fred Murray: They hadn't for thirteen years. And boom they're out there and they had to talk. That's another good thing. You know I'm I'm pretty quick to say about the bad stuff about the program but there was a lot of good stuff and that was almost chief among them you know. So... But anyway that leaves uh leaves a bitterness in me you know eh when I happen to think about that.

Erinn Larkin: In Maggie's defense or in the show's defense maybe the only reason they had to do that is because Renner put that claim out there. And I feel like, to a lot of people, fair or not, silence is going to be an admission of guilt. So I'm glad that at least it sort of put it to rest. And frankly Renner is the one that came off looking reprehensible for suggesting that in his book. So....

Fred Murray: Ehhhhmm. But anyway. Eh. You know everybody wants to get into the act and um have something to say. And, em, the Renner influence on the case is has has hurt you know. Its its been a dist its hurt by means of being a distraction. And it it it keeps me and everybody else from concentrating on what needs to be done. I I don't want to have to defend myself. I'd I was torn whether I just totally ignore 'em. But then um I'm um um I'd be subjected to the idea well if Fred didn't do this Fred would have said that he didn't do it. So you're you're guilty if you don't defend yourself you know. So I chose to take it on point for point. I wrote one letter and that was the five most important things possible lets get'em all. Lets touch everything he says I wanna rebut. And and just just debunk just conquer it with the truth. And so out came the uh the second letter. So that's the story behind the the letters and uh the way I handled Renner. one I was really torn. And but I don't like to get hit and not swing back you know. Turn the other cheek. I alwa...even as a little kid turn the other cheek.

Erinn Larkin: Emm hmmm

Fred Murray: Yeah. Right now I'll get walloped on the other cheek he he you know. (Laughs) So that's that what I was doing. And um you know. Well well here here's something else that I don't know anything about. And I wanna know something about. What about the three Loon Mountain workers? I found about that later, maybe a year or two years into the case, that there were three workers from Loon Mountain, young males I guess, that would've driven by that area that weren't at work that day. Who are they? What are their names? Where can I find 'em? I've never spoken to them. Have the cops spoken to them? Who knows. But I haven't. I don't know who they are. And I wanna know that. If the cops haven't spoken to those guys then the case is incomplete. They haven't investigated. That that should be part of the investigation. Because these people were mentioned to me as possible suspects or uh people who that should be spoken to to see what they saw if even that you know. Did you see this girl walking? Did you see the the accident? Did you come by shortly after the accident what did you see? You know. The people are telling me about this that uh they grabbed her. So, um, that's something that can still be pursued.

Erinn Larkin: They didn't give you any names or anything?

Fred Murray: No, but that can't be lost in time that's uh

Erinn Larkin: No, I've. So there is two sets of brothers. Um there is the *** brothers.

Fred Murray: Its not them.

Erinn Larkin: And there is the **** brothers.

Fred Murray: No its not them. I mean no no they aren't the mountain workers. We'll get to those boys.

Erinn Larkin: Ohhh Ok.

Fred Murray: But anyway those are the three guys I wanna talk to. And they are not *** and uh ****

Erinn Larkin: Yeah

Fred Murray: Yeah. So that's an open question. Its a burning question in my mind. 'Cause these guys may have grabbed her. So, that's if the eh eh the next thing I want to do is try to find out who these birds are and go talk to 'em. And so, if there's any way to get that done

Erinn Larkin: I'm sure that there is

Fred Murray: That would be a feather in whoever's bonnet does it.

Erinn Larkin: The show sort of left off with some suspicions surrounding the A-frame house. Can you tell us about the background of that and the story behind the rusty knife that was reportedly given to you by Claude Moulton's brother?

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Section 5

Fred Murray: He's gotta go up there and then dispose of the body in first of all he had to be up there to create a body to dispose of you know must be buried in the snow up there all that time oh who knows, but based based on Jeremy's uh positive, near positive identification, Tim needs to be asked about it by the police.

Erinn Larkin: And his truck was red. I'm recalling.

Fred Murray: Yeah. It was kind of maroonish. But they said this was a dark red. You know I looked for but I didn't believe it. And I thought a truck with a cap but then I saw a cap in Tim's garage. You know. So that may have been the cap that was on you know, so I don't know, but that's a another thing that has not gotten a good look.

Erinn Larkin: You mention the **** brothers what do we know about them? Because I had never even heard of them.

Fred Murray: Local dirt bags and uh heavily into drugs and and stuff like but they were on that road apparently ***** was on his way back from Lincoln and uh that would put them in the area and one local said I was told it was a girl they think was Maura was seen in the car in a car with the ***** ***** and ***** of uh ***** ***** a couple of times out of nowhere all of a sudden I walk in on 'em. He comes home and here I am right near his front door and the guy can't look at me. No no they with his girlfriend this one had a girlfriend I guess and uh he he can't meet my gaze you knw he looks suspicious as hell he acts suspicious as hell I got that name over and over and over again I wanted the program to um develop it a little bit, you know, we got Art you know come on Art lets do this. Now i don't know what the cops did with them uh they may have talked I don't know. Because again the cops don;t tell me if the cops I told the cops tell me whats going on uh this whole thing is gonna work lot easier 'cause uh I I don't know that you've done these things

Erinn Larkin: Right

Fred Murray: I get tips and I don't know if you follow up "Oh we looked at that" That's what they say every time "oh we looked at that Fred." What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything. "We looked at that" you know. So. I don't know how closely they looked at it. If they looked at it at all so that leaves me still demanding wanting to know. If you don't talk to me I'm gonna keep it up. Until I know.

Fred Murray: Like everybody else does when somebody goes missing they thank the police very much then they go away some might complain but then they nothing happens the police put them off and they drift off and you never hear from them again and that's the end oft he case. But this time it didn't happen. Because I... I stuck with it. And I had help. I had a lot of help. Not influential help.

News caption: "On a mission to find his missing daughter Maura, Fred Murray went to Concord to meet Governor Lynch 'I did meet Mr. Murray' frustrated with the state police investigation into her disappearance Mr. Murray's asking the governor to release all her case files. 'This is just part of overturning the uh next stone to see what comes up. But its incredibly hard and terribly frustrating.' "

Fred Murray: Let me tell me about the best help that I got and the most timely thing and I asked the program to please mention this guy oh oh I wanted Helena mentioned of course the absolute salt of the earth is Helena. They didn't give Helena anywhere near enough credit Helena was the Maura Murray case because uh I made a lot of noise but I'm just uh this guy running around yelling about cops you know and and and searchin' and being a pain in backside. Which I was searching all over the place. I got blamed for trespassing on people's property but I barely ever did that. I really wasn't doing to anywhere near the extent that I get I get I get I get roasted for that but it didn't matter you know.

Fred Murray: Just about a year into the case when things were quieting down and I thought it was uh the cops this is gunna dry up and blow away like they all do. This was a little more stubborn, but its gunna go here comes Tim Ervin. He says he does every now and then he feels he owes it to the society to do a pro-bono so he did he contacted me and he said he's like to represent me and what did I think. You know. And release the records. But John Healy is the guy that kept trying to talk me out of uh bringing the cops to court. the court case. Healy repeatedly tried to talk me out of that. And he really put on a major rush on me to get me not to do that not to take the cops to court

Erinn Larkin: Did he have a reason for it?

Fred Murray: We're gunna take care of it. We're doing everything we can Mr. Murray. And we'll get to the bottom of this. But we don't uh the judge can do nothing there's nothing no sense in going. And uh so I said I see you had time haven't done it and I want all help I can get. You know and you won't show met he records and something in those records that means nothing to you might very well mean something to me and I'll help you uh, I'll explain it and uh how it pertains to the case what's important but uh so I went ahead with it and that led to the that that court case which he did an admirable job.

Erinn Larkin: I thought so.

Fred Murray: Yeah

Erinn Larkin: And I've read through everything.

Fred Murray: Sure and uh, but Tim Ervin put the case back on the map he made all the difference he and Helena and the program didn't even mention Tim Ervin I pleaded with 'em. I said before I even talk about anything I wanna make sure that Helena and Tim Ervin get the credit 'cause without them there will be no Maura Murray case. You wouldn't be here. And so. But anyway they uh they uh they had had psychics on instead

Erinn Larkin: I know

Fred Murray: You know lookin' for bridges now or something they looked at everything, you know. I'm not kidding about the three trees in a row (Laughs) But Tim Ervin need to get the credit he deserves that's a good guy and he's he's very capable. Very Capable.

Erinn Larkin: So that was part one of my conversation with Fred Murray. I have a few quick notes I want to mention about some of the topics we touched on. The first thing is I just want to reiterate what you could call the unsung hero in this case and that's an attorney from Massachusetts and his name is Tim Ervin. I don't think a lot of people know that name but he spent years working to force the state of New Hampshire to release information about this case and made it as far as the New Hampshire Supreme Court. And he did it all pro bono. Just about all the information we have the court documents dispatch logs accident reports statements from the Attorney General's office are all thanks to Tim Ervin.

Erinn Larkin: Bloggers myself included have posted and reposted the information he was able to force the state hand over but I think its important to make very clear who deserves the credit for that. Ant its no one other Tim Ervin. And my second note is that Mr. Murray mentioned two open letters he posted on John Smith's website in response to several claims James Renner has made over the years. So I've reposted those letters and provide links to the original post on my website at the107degree.com. And I urge people to check that out and read those letters. Third and regarding the carpet samples that were taken from the A-Frame house by the New Hampshire League of Investigators I did follow up with assistant attorney general Strelzin and asked him whether those were received by the state police. He did get back to me but was unable to comment on any potential evidence in the case. However Art and Maggie were able to confirm that the carpet samples were eventually into evidence by the state police. And if what Strelzin said in episode four of the Oxygen series is true and that all the evidence in their possession has been tested than we can reasonably infer that the carpet samples are included in that category.

Erinn Larkin: The next thing is that Mr. Murray mentioned the party at Sara Alfieri's and the three men that were supposedly present at that party. It's worth pointing out that, according to police, that those individuals were cleared early on in the investigation. Lastly, I think a lot people are interested and want to help out with the case, but aren't really sure what they can do. And one thing that Mr. Murray mentioned is that the so-called Loon Mountain three have yet to be identified. They're three guys that he would like to speak with to if only to ask whether they perhaps saw someone walking down the road that night. Its a question that I think with the little time energy someone in the Internet community would be able to answer. So as always feel free to get in or email me with any questions comments or clarification and I'll be releasing the second part of this interview soon, so be sure to check back.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Section 4

Fred Murray: Claude Moulton's brother came to me and um said he thought that his brother Claude was involved uh in my daughter's disappearance. And one of the things he said is that this bloody that look like a big long super jackknife but it had red stains on it no question about it you know. So I went I had that and he gave me a couple of other things that belonged to Claude. Uh, I went to the state police and couldn't find... it was on a Sunday or something this state police uh building up there. I couldn't find anyone to give it to. I couldn't find a state cop in the State cop headquarters. So I uh... Oh and I left and I mailed it to director the head guy commander of the entire state police and I mailed them that and I never heard a word whether... Oh,, I uh he did get it 'cause I had a return thing uh certified return mail. And so I know they got it but I never heard a thing about it. That's another thing that they've never gotten back to me on.

Erinn Larkin: I think that one of the things that Strelzin said is that everything that they've gotten into their possession they tested. So I don't know.

Fred Murray: No. No. We have no way. That's what prompted me the whole time to conduct my own investigation. I do not trust the cops. They're trying to exculpate themselves from any responsibility you know. But anyway that's something that happened. And that's the bloody knife.

Erinn Larkin: Did Claude have uh or Larry have a story to go with that? Or anything else other than I think my brother is a bad guy?

Fred Murray: No its... uh a uh an extremely bad character reference for his brother you know. He told me what a uh a jerk and a monster his brother was and bad treatment er uh women things like that. And and plus he was after young women and that business you know. So that's another thing you hear about. But...but that's that's what happened and um...

Erinn Larkin: Did he ever go to the police that you know of or did he only come to you?

Fred Murray: He called me. I went to him um.... Did he go to the police? I don't know.

Erinn Larkin: OK

Fred Murray: I'd rather tell you I don't know than say I think he did what I think. I don't know. What about the bloody carpet? I'm not talking about this recent discovery up there in the closet uh the piece of wallpaper that they had analyzed, and may have blood on it. Uh this was a bloody carpet sample but appeared to be blood on carpet. This wasn't wallpaper. That carpet is gone now. It was in the A-frame. The uh... The police, the league of investigators, were up there and uh these were... You know about them don't you? Yeah.

Erinn Larkin: Emm hmmm. Yes.

Fred Murray: They were volunteers and stuff like that. They were helping. They went in, cut out samples of carpet. And uh... they were going to have it analyzed. And so I event... when, when I heard nothing, I eventually tracked down the guy that had the carpet that was holding it and uh the the scientifically proper conditions, whatever you have to do... He had them held in that condition waiting to be analyzed and John Healy the uh the director of the volunteer um retired cop search group was gunna...gunna get it done.

Fred Murray: But Healy is the guy with these carpet samples he never had them analyzed. I found out about it two and a half years later. But uh when I told Strelzin about this is years after that we don't know, no we never heard about that we didn't hear about those carpet samples so Healy took 'em he gave then to this guy and never never pressed it after that so to this day I don't know what Strelzin went to the guy and got them in and have them analyzed. I still don't know that.

Erinn Larkin: So we still don't know where any of the carpet samples ended up?

Fred Murray: No the that I gave them to him was the guy I was supposed to give them to the cops probably told me then he put them into the proper storage area and Healy was going to get them and test ‘em. It never happened. 29:24

Fred Murray: So that's actually what appears to be blood on carpet in the A-Frame removed by the league of investigators and no follow up. What if that's blood? What if that's human blood?

Erinn Larkin: That's kind of remarkable. I thought that those were tested.

Fred Murray: No. No. They were not tested. And if they eventually were, I never heard about it. I told them and Strelzin said he talked to his boys you have the carpet no no we never got those. Who's got 'em who's got em? So I told 'em

Erinn Larkin: Where are they now?

Fred Murray: I don't know. I assume the cops have them. I assume the cops when I told Strelzin about that I assume Strelzin went and got 'em. The State Police should be asked that. Strelzin himself should be asked that.

Fred Murray: Then what about ********* ************ ************** that ************ group? What about ********* **** From uhhh, ********* Form company uhhh cement foundations? The very first week a psychic came up there from Connecticut. I believe says concrete concrete she's near concrete and she brought me down Brick Kiln Road is that the name of it?

Erinn Larkin: Lime kiln?

Fred Murray: What is it?

Erinn Larkin: Lime kiln Road.

Fred Murray: No no not up not on uh

Erinn Larkin: Briar Hill?

Fred Murray: Nope nope nope. Boy you know some spots! Man!

Erinn Larkin: (Laughs)

Fred Murray: It will come to me the road right right right before you get to the corner where the uh little country store ther is. French Pond Road!

Erinn Larkin: Oh right!

Fred Murray: At the end of French Pond Road there is a cemetery she went absolutely nuts. She running around holding her head she's close she's under this snow bank by the stone wall the foundation Foundation cement cement Foundation the other end about 1 mile down the street that was ******* Foundation business. And **** was bragging around town that he was involved in uh Maura;s uh disappearance. I try to get the cops had the cops ever looked at it? Who knows. I wanted Maggie and Art to do something there. Did they? They didn't. Maggie and Art never went anywhere near them.

Fred Murray: And the other bird is Tim Carpenter who was married to my daughter Kathleen. My daughter. This the guy up there who swears that he saw a red truck with a big bundle of blankets tied up with what had to be a cadaver he he he says its a decaying cadaver this is in April in the spring as if you took somebody out of a frozen in snow wrap them up and had to find a burial the party is starting to smell this is in uh a couple of towns over on Route 25. His name was Jeremy Rathbun. He made a sketch and gave it to me before he ever saw Tim Carpenter. And one day we were up in um what the hell is the name of that town I'll let you know I'll get it but anyway we met in the center of town big rocket ship in the middle of this town (Laughs) its on route 25. And uh anyway, we uh, all met there and we went up into the woods where he said he found a uh its like a sweater

Erinn Larkin: Yeah. I think it was like a sweatshirt or something like that?

Fred Murray: Yeah a sweatshirt or something like that and we went in the woods but this was oh probably a mile on the other side of where he brought me into showed me where this guy that I referred to as stinkface because the guy had a mask on to cut down the odor or something you know how people might wear a mask in a disaster area where there are bodies and Jeremy says in the back of the truck was this bundle and it stunk he said I've smelled decaying bodies before that's what it was. This is Jeremy Rathbun telling me this. and the guy had a mask on so we didn't know what to do with that then after Jeremy found uh this blue sweatshirt then he called me and he said the reason I was up there, the reason I found it is uh, that same day that we saw stinkface with his load Patty, that's his wife, who also bills herself as a psychic amazing how many people are psychic (Laughs) say they are but anyway they looked up in the hillside and saw the same truck with the cap off it. So there's a guy uh uh were trying to air it out or something like that and uh the truck disappeared. They went out and looked around all they could find was that blue sweatshirt and so that day though I was with Kathleen and Tim they were there that's uh uh Jeremy got a look at Tim and then not right away but a couple months later said Fred I don't know how to tell you this that guy there Tim is stinkface he is the guy that I saw at the pond with the crock with the wrapped up glass thinking load. And I said well that guy had a mask on. He says no its unmistakable Fred I know that is Tim Carpenter. And he he this is you know he saw Tim with Kathleen with me and then he says Fred the guy can't look at me He won't look at me. Jeremy and I went down into the woods. And searched around in the woods where the red truck was seen in the woods with the cap off and stuff like that. Tim wouldn't go.

Fred Murray: He stayed out uh, out by the street with his wife and Kathleen and stuff like that but its unnatural. The guy didn't go you know. You can use guys on the search but uh he didn't go and he he Jeremy says he will not look at me he says that is stinkface. That's the guy with the disposing the stinking load. So I wanted these people to try to do something with the uh program to do something with Tim Carpenter and I know they didn't. So you know there's those are the dirtbags all around that need a close look at. You know a close inspection. And it has not been done. And I doubt that it will be done.

Erinn Larkin: So, would Kathleen have known where Tim was on that Monday? Maybe Not.

Fred Murray: Uh, um, It would seem so. Unless she was drunk. Which is possible.

Erinn Larkin: Oh, right.

Fred Murray: But and that's a long time to be drunk.

Erinn Larkin: Yes.

[–]niksichm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

big rocket ship in the middle of this town (Laughs) its on route 25

This is Warren, NH.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interview Part 2

Note part 2 isn't finished completely because I am lazy. However, a heroic effort is being made to rescue me from the mire.

Erin Larkin: Welcome back, I’m Erinn. I appreciate everyone’s patience waiting on the second half of the interview, so I will keep my intro here quick. I just wanna say thanks again to Fred and Julie for sharing their time and knowledge and also thanks to everyone who continues to contribute to the discussion in a helpful and respectful way. As always, feel free to reach out to me with any questions or clarifications. And with that, here is part 2 of my conversation with Fred Murray.

Erin Larkin: Have you every felt like her disappearance could be related to any-any other uh other crimes or disappearances in the area, obviously Brianna Maitland [not clear what she says here 1:26]

Fred Murray: Yeah, sure absolutely.

Erinn Larking: Yeah?

Fred Murray: Oh God, yeah. I mean, people have disappeared a lot up there and you know they get lost in the woods or they went in the woods and committed suicide. And I’m not happy with anything about this at all. There is so much left to be found out and it’s gonna- I think it’s gonna involve the cops, if it isn’t, it could be a dirtbag, you know. A travelling dirtbag or something like that from just happening- going through. We still don’t know about the 3 uh ski workers, Loon Mountain workers, cos they weren’t the guys you mentioned earlier.

Erinn Larking: Yeah, I’ve always thought it was the ***** brothers.

Fred Murray: The interest in the ***** brothers is because they drove a red truck with the wooden sides and stuff like that, and Robin Ordsway or whatever her name was, who was on her way to the the log cabin store saw the truck go by and slow down, you know the story right. And then they were waiting at the store and they saw her come around the corner, she obviously wasn’t who they were looking for and they took off, and they’ve got- I’ve been told that they are shortwave radio operators and they uh they’ve got contact and they may have heard the police report or something like that and maybe they are looking for this girl. That was the ***** boys, I tried to get the cops interested and then one day, I was at the accident scene and this truck went by and it was the exact track, it looked like I had heard it - the description - this was the truck that had been described. I followed it. It went over **** **** and went down the first side street on the left. The ***** boys had rented that house. But I never got a chance to talk to them. In fact, I could never bump into them after that. I couldn’t find them. I was there many times, up to that place and that house. I searched for them and I could not find the ***** boys, but that was the connection with the ***** boys driving by and looking but nothing at all about going to Loon Mountain.

Erinn Larkin: Wow, ok. There was like a fire meeting that day-

Fred Murray: Yeah.

Erinn Larkin: -so, I also considered the idea the red truck could be a brush truck, a fire truck. Which is basically a pickup truck-

Fred Murray: Yeah.

Erinn Larkin: -essentially, it’s a little bit bigger than a pick up truck and it has a giant hose to get into [inadubale? 3:44 onwards] in the woods, you can’t get a fire truck into?

Fred Murray: This was a very old vehicle.

Erinn Larkin: Oh ok.

Fred Murray: The Glynn boys vehicle, and the vehicle Robinson told me about. She kept stressing that-

Erinn Larkin: It was old?

Fred Murray: -yeah. It had rounded fenders kind of thing and it was definitely - had some years on it. And it doesn’t sound like it’s something that would be strong enough that the firemen would- would have a better vehicle. That’s what I think of that, you know. But I’m ruling them on the Loon Mountain for sure.

Erinn Larkin: Have you gotten any good leads since the show started? Or is it like a lot of the same?

Fred Murray: I just had that rehash. Personal contacts with me about Claude Moulton. Nah, I haven’t- I haven’t gotten anything. No- no good hands, no good leads. Need a real good clue. We need someone to spill their guts. I- I’ve been depending on somebody getting in trouble, and ratting on somebody else, as part of a plea bargain and getting real lucky that way, and finding out what happened, you know, but that hasn’t worked either. I’m telling you this **** can’t look at me. At all. And he- he- he’s- that guy is suspicious, and that’s the prime name, he and **** that I get- I get hit with all the time for years and years earlier. That was overwhelming finger-poining by locals. There was a tale about - uh **** and **** in a bar in Franconia with **** there and uh- they were discussing uh- Maura, you know. The report was that they did it. But I got stuff like that all over the place, but it was always these guys. Well-known, renowned local dirtbags, and uh- there is no way around that. It gets right down to her being seen in the backseat of a car with 2 of the ***** and **** and maybe **** and the sighting supposed to take place at 116 and 112, who knows, you know, what’s true and what’s not, but I’ve never been able to put it to bed. The whole first 5 years I did nothing but chase these guys. And went to these guys all by myself and I never brought anybody with me or anything like that and I just confronted them. I confronted ***** in his driveway, he said “I knew you were coming. I didn’t do it.” I wish I knew if the cops followed up on it, but I never will, the cops won’t talk. So. I can give them names and hope that they do something with it, but I will never, ever know, until I actually see the case records. And I want them to declare it a murder case and get rid of this missing person thing, so maybe more force can be brought to bear on it. Maybe we can get the FBI in. I’ve been screaming for the FBI, and that gives them absolute horrors. These cops don;t want the FBI bearing down on them. And that- that’s been my problem the entire- since day 1. Day 3- she disappeared Monday but it was day 1 investigating the case, that’s when I got there, you know, at dawn on Wednesday morning to join the search, but I was the search. She is missing on Monday, they don’t start searching til Wednesday. They don’t ask the people that lived in the neighbourhood what they saw. All the neighbours until about 10 days out. And that’s because I found out, because I was talking to the neighbours, that the police hadn’t talked to them. So I hit the roof when that happened. There was another trip up to the barracks up there, up to Twin Mountain, right in their front porch, barking at them. [7.46]