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Original RecordsFrank Kelly (Weeper) Quotes from Topix (self.MauraMurrayEvidence)

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Posts from Topix and old MMM Forum

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 3870
August 9, 2008

I have been following this site as I have with the MMM Forum. Some posters here know who I am and I've met some of you over the years. I believe most of you are here because you want to help and contribute to the investigation of Maura's dissapperance.

As I've stated on Maura's Forum in the past, I will assist in answering questions you may have so long as those questions/answers do not hinder this investigation.

I am, by profession, a nationaly certified criminal defense investigatior, not being employed, paid, induced or otherwise under the influance of any member of the Murray family. I am one of several private investigators (pro-bono)from MA,NH,ME,VT and CT who are taking on this case for one purpose only..to uncover the TRUTH of what happened to Maura Murray on Feb. 9, 2004. I am not here to entertain you or partake in frivolous conversation.

Elsewhere posted this:

The reason why I brought up Weeper yesterday, not Frank Kelly, is because his posts on Maura's forum were ones that I took into careful consideration.

"He removed himself from the case shortly after the volunteer search in 2006 and wrote a letter to the courts requesting that the information on Maura's case remained sealed."

I have not removed myself from this case and did not send a letter to any court requesting all documents remain sealed. Though I agree they should be held from public release as this is an ongoing investigation.

Maura's has been a major homicide investigation for quite some time, this was confirmed to me the day I read Weeper's letter to the courts.

Weeper's on Maura's side and he obviously has a good reason to go against Fred's desire to obtain more information in an effort to find her.

"Weeper was also one of the number of experts who stated the person(s) responsible for Maura's disappearance has done it before and will do it again."

This statement I do agree with, though I will not give specific reasons for my belief that Maura was the victim of "foul play".

Whiston,

It may be worth your while to go back and re-read Weeper's posts on Maura's first forum. His are easy to find, they are in all caps.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 3881
August 9, 2008

To all,

Allow me to explain/extrapolate on our (The Maura Murray PI Task Force Team) reasoning for not wanting and/or accepting any documents obtained from the New Hampshire Major Crimes Unit as related to this investigation.

To begin with, our group of investigators has over 150 years of “criminal investigation” experience combined/jointly in every aspect of investigations. That is to say, we have experts (Court Certified Experts) in Accident Reconstruction (automobiles, trains, boats, etc.), Defense Investigators, State Police Homicide Investigators (retired, now Private Investigators), Search and Rescue Experts, Statement Analysis and Body Languish Experts and Missing Persons (cold/unsolved cases) Investigators.

All these investigators come from Professional Associations from the State level and National level. We meet quarterly to discuss the progress of our involvement in the search for Maura and we come to a “majority consensus” as to our theories and methods of operation. Each investigator is given “investigative tasks” as their area of expertise dictates coordinated by an elected Team Leader; in this case it is John Healy.

To accept any information/documents from the NHSP Major Crimes Unit or the AG’s Office would prevent us (separately or jointly) from conducting an “unbiased/independent” investigation into Maura’s disappearance and would put us in jeopardy and criminally liable to prosecution for “interfering in an on-going State investigation” if we were to act on the information/documents provided. However, any progress we make on our own we can pursue without “prejudice” and EVERY SOLID LEAD is immediately sent to the Lead Investigator for the NHSP Major Crimes Unit.

We do not keep ANYTHING from the State Police that we feel will help in solving this case. We do keep these “information/results” from the public for the same reason the police do, we want a successful prosecution of those responsible for this CRIME. As for the feeling that the people who live in Haverhill, Swiftwater, Bath and the surrounding area haven’t been helpful in this pursuit, let me assure each and every one of you reading this Forum without the good hearted citizens up there in the North Country we would not be able to function at all.

They have provided us with their time, money, food, housing and prayers from day-one! There are a few very dangerous people up there it’s true, but there are a few very dangerous people in every corner of this planet, however there are a lot more of us who give a damn and value life. Not just our own, but every life.

Suicide and accidental death we have ruled out, collectively. All Maura look-alike “sightings” reported to us have been checked (yes, even the Church sighting) with negative results. Thank you for taking the time to read this long post, if/when I post information (with Team approval) please understand that it is given to you all with the hope you will utilize the information to fit a “viable theory” that may be useful toward a successful conclusion to this case.

The damage to Maura’s Saturn was not the result of running off the road, into a snow bank and striking a tree. This is a fact, use it. The cracked windshield was from the inside of the vehicle, this is a fact, use it.

Weeper PS...sorry if this posts twice, I sent it once and it went..God-knows-where???

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 3902
Aug 10, 2008

To All, Mr. Franklin has developed an interesting line of thought and theory I feel compelled to respond to, please read through this and garnish what you may. Benjamin Franklin writes (Hayward, CA)

"Now for my questions to Weezer"

Mr. Franklin, my aka is “Weeper” not Weezer, though my doctor may feel weezer more appropriate since my last physical, my lungs working less than my “tear ducts” as of late.

"I believe the Material question is: "At what point were Maura's actions involuntary, if at all?"

I will address this question as “we” or “our”(referring to the PI Team) collectively for the sake accuracy. Our collective opinion is that Maura’s “involuntary actions” began where the “overhang damage to the front end of the Saturn” occurred.

This location is as yet determined though we suspect within 1-3 miles of the Saturn’s location at the “Red Barn”.

"That is not a question I expect Weezer to answer.:) The evidence you supplied implies the scene was set up."

This does seem to imply a staged placing of the vehicle, yes. It brings to my attention the possibility that it was not Maura in the car that Mr. Atwood saw. This is certainly a viable possibility and probability as well.

It also brings to mind the assertion that a man saw a girl running along the road the night of the accident.

The man who stated this did not report this to the police. A conversation this individual had with another person was “overheard” and reported to the police two months after the night of the “incident”, reported shortly before an extensive ground search of the immediate area was being planned.

"Which brings me to a question for Weezer. Has Mr. Atwood stated that he has seen Maura's picture and Maura was the person whom he saw in the car?"

Mr. Atwood was shown a photograph/picture of Maura and stated “the girl looked like her but her hair was down”, where Maura nearly always wore her hair in a “bob-hair” style.

Keep in mind that no one in that area had ever seen Maura Murray before, that we are aware of.

Part 1

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 3903
August 10, 2008

Continued,

"This answer either places Maura in the car or places Mr. Atwood as a participant in a conspiracy."

Your assumption is wrong on both accounts here, Mr. Franklin. 1. Assuming Mr. Atwood’s statement is truthful, he saw a female who “looked like Maura” but different in at least one aspect, to wit: her hair was different. 2. Mis-identification is no basis (on its own standing) to assume an active attempt to deceive. Eye witness accounts are always “circumstantial evidence” for this very reason, Mr. Franklin.

"At this point it is a matter of subtantiating Mr. Atwood's assertion that he did not abduct her."

Again, be careful how you set your questions and statements Mr. Franklin; Mr. Atwood does not have to “assert” he did not abduct Maura. Mr. Atwood at this point is merely a “witness” and not a person of interest/suspect. This is only one of many statements made by Mr. Atwood and a judgment of “credibility” can not be made standing on one statement.

"The fact that the scene was statged does not preclude Maura's involvement in the staging. Her actions show that she had an undisclosed agenda and because of this, I wouldn't put it past her to stage the accident."

The first sentence above was asked and answered under “At what point were Maura's actions involuntary, if at all?" As to Maura’s “undisclosed agenda”, your assumption may or may not be correct only if we (collectively) knew what that agenda was.

"But I also see that the staging puts Mr. Atwood in a precarious position."

Again, if Mr. Atwood played an active role in the occurrence of this incident, it would be foolish to place it in your own front yard. We feel the location was picked (in an area where there existed a locale full time; albeit small, Police Department and just shy of Federal property, to wit The White Mountain National Forest) for “jurisdictional” reasons.

In any case, the staging of the accident was intended for us to believe that she was abducted - which helps her the most (to start a new life)- secondly an abductor, that now the evidence points its neon sign to.

The staging of any incident (automobile accident, a murder, abduction, stolen property and such) is for one purpose only; to relocate the “physical evidence” from the actual scene of the crime, even if the “crime” is as simple as “abandoning a vehicle on a public way”.

"I am, as always, your humble Servant, etc. &"

I hope my answering your questions and responding to your assumptions will assist you in furthering your theory of what became of Maura Murray, Mr. Franklin. I will not repeat myself in this Forum once I’ve commented on any post. The readers can use this information or ignore it and “pick and choose” bits of information to bind their theories together if they choose. However, one does not come to the truth by putting on blinders because it’s easier that way, one comes to the truth by starting over and over and over again and again until the “picture-puzzle” hangs by two tacks on the wall without falling to the floor. This is why it may take years to solve a mystery such as this. We have traveled the path you are on years ago. It’s a good path, Mr. Franklin. Thank you for your input and I look forward to following your progress. Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 3998
August 13, 2008

Good evening to you all,

Clearly there seems to be much emotion expressed from some very caring individuals on this Topix Discussion Group and I can appreciate your input and passion for getting to the truth of this case.

If you will allow me an opinion and address some of these issues with as much finesse’ as an old-Irish Terrier can muster;

Mr. Franklin’s posts (3988 and 3989) in responding to Sophie’s posts were well thought out, checking emotions at the door so-to-speak. I don’t believe I’ve read many (if any) posters stating their “theories” as “facts” rather just possible scenarios to build a “viable theory” upon.

The alleged facts are garnished by media reports to the public, it’s all you folks have to work with, simply because you are not privy to a lot of “behind the scenes” activities by Law Enforcement, our PI Team and even witnesses who may or may not have been instructed to remain silent.

This does not mean that what you all have offered up in these discussions is being ignored or not appreciated by both the family of Maura Murray (all you/ us/we “insiders?”) and our Team.

Euro, your post (3993) is correct in part (if one wishes to begin at Amherst, MA and work ones way to Haverhill, NH it would take longer than where we are today) however, we do have to start at one end or the other.

Sometimes the only way to find the beginning is to work backwards and in this case it’s the abandoned Saturn 620 feet east of the intersection of Bradley Hill Road on Route 112 in Haverhill, NH. This is where the “physical evidence” to wit; the vehicle was found.

I have posted and clearly stated as “fact”(this can be backed up in any court of law, but not here) the damage to the Saturn did not happen where the vehicle was recovered. Hence, our investigation of foul play begins there,(by “there” I mean within a few miles) and I might add, has not ventured far from there, for the two and a half years that I’ve been involved with this case.

This does not mean we (the Team, LE and others) have not explored all the possibilities to include run-away, suicide, accidental wandering/death, hit-and-run etc.

I (this is my “professional opinion”, not necessarily the Team or LE you understand) believe the location of the Saturn was staged. I believe Maura met with foul play prior to the staging, I believe the overhang damage to the front end of the Saturn was deliberate; I believe her disappearance was not voluntary and I further believe this is no longer a “search and rescue” but a recovery. If there was ever a time in my life I hope to be wrong it is at this time.

Some of you will whole-heartedly disagree with this and some will positively agree with this and that’s fine, because it is after all a mystery worthy of discussion and debate.

Please try to be respectful, analytical, logical and accepting of all “reasonable scenarios” in support of your theories.

Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to speak as freely as I am capable.

Respectfully

Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4032
August 14, 2008

To all, if I may

First off, thank you Jerry for clarifying some misunderstandings as to what I posted here on Topix for Mr. Franklin’s posts on WebSlueths.

I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004.

A witness returning home from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a black “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater.

Please have a map of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into Bath where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater.

As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general store, she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located.

When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (ass-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood.

The witness then continued along route 112 East heading home and flashed her/his high-low beams to oncoming traffic (universal signal to slow down ahead) due to the location of the accident on the sharp curve.

This witness’ account of what she/he saw that evening supports the postings about an “earlier accident” where “female left in private vehicle”, which was heard by others over the scanners up in that area.

What does all this mean then? It means an officer was responding to a “vehicle slid off the road” call, but rather than take the most direct route to the Weathered Barn the officer went back toward Route 10 where it intersect with Goose Lane up in the Woodsville section of Haverhill, before turning back toward the corner at the Westerman’s Weathered Barn.

Could there have been two separate women sliding off the road into snow banks that evening within thirty minutes of one another, I doubt it but it is possible none the less.

End Part 1

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4033
August 14, 2008

This information has been posted so I’m not telling you anything your own research would not have revealed. This information is only part of the reason I/we place Maura’s disappearance somewhere within 1-3 miles of where the Saturn came to rest.

Again, keep in mind this is only “circumstantial evidence” as are all eye-witness accounts. In my many years experience (statistically speaking) there are more convictions based on circumstantial evidence than on “physical evidence”. Long post but I feel this will help you in your scenarios and theories.

Respectfully

Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4069
August 15, 2008

To all,

Thank you all for allowing me to assist you in your pursuit in seeking out the truth and facts in this case.

That being said, there is now (or will there ever be in the future) any reason for anyone to apologize to me for anything you may post here on this Topix site, regardless of the context/content of your postings. I have been doing this work for many years and my skin is to thick to take anything personal.

Our goal is the same, our methodologies may differ, our scenarios and theories range from close to the mark (utilizing the facts provided you) to the obscure/obscene (ignoring those facts). This is the purpose of “open and free public dialog” on this site.

I do respect the amount of time and energy you all have contributed to this end, and thank you for assisting me and our Team in doing so.

To clear up a misunderstanding we were all under for some time in reference to the black Bronco type police vehicle, this unit was in fact H1 (for Haverhill unit #1) and was operated by Sgt. C. Smith on the evening of Feb. 9, 2004.

So there is no “mystery Bronco” to speak of, no “rouge make-believe-police vehicle” involved in any of this situation.

Respectfully,

Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4078
August 15, 2008

FireCat wrote:

"I believe if you go back to Weeper's most recent post, he cleared that up. That Bronco IS H1...they are one and the same....and so presumably is owned by HPD and was operated by CS. As usual, Weeper, if I'm lyin' I'm buyin'.:)"

Firecat, you are correct, it is one in the same vehicle.

Wheston, yes there does seem to be a discrepency between the witness statement and the police accident report.

Draw your own conclussions about this and take into account the intire accident report, you may find several other problems with that. The Grafton County Dispatch log was previously posted (I believe on the MMM site) and I am not obliged to re-post it.

You can find the accident report on the exsisting MMM site however, and if one looks at EVERY block, and word in the report you may be left scratching your head. Print this document out and when I say EVERY block and word, take a highlighter and highlight every part that seems odd.

When you've completed this "document evaluation" in this manner, if you have more than six (6) highlighted oddities they're not there by "mistake". Note the time the report was writen and the information in this "official public document" and draw your own "reasonable" conclussions, if you will.

Sophie, please read the information provided to you before posting your questions, as Firecat pointed out.

The "dog-hit" at the A-frame was stated as "possibly being minsterl secretions" from a laundry hamper (in the closet)on the second floor or any blood/human secretions from clothing "near/under" a washing machine on the first floor. The dogs hit on both locations and the carpet was removed from the first floor.

We handled this material as is expected in our field and sent half to the NHSP. We never expect any return information from the LE community nor do we want it. The reasons for this have been stated earlier.

You all need to keep in mind that in the process of a criminal "on-going investigation" even "public information" can be(and often is)witheld from public scrutiny. If you can't understand the reasoning for this, take up needle-point rather than investigations. I'm not being funny about this, I mean it.

Respectfully
Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
Manchester, NH

Post # 4089
August 16, 2008

To all,

Sophie, I wasn't scolding you in my last post. You stated in your post #4071 in paragraph #2 about an unknown Bronco after I explained the mix up about H1 Police vehicle.

Then I explained about the dog hits you mentioned in your post #3 as possibly being from minstrel fluids from a hamper. I also explained the reasoning about "public" right to know versus an ongoing police investigation, that's just the way it is.

I can't change that and I never thought you (or anyone else) are here for "purient curiosity" or to be funny. If you feel this way by what I've stated in my previous post you are taking this personaly and you should not because you have some very interesting perspectives.

I have responded to issues on the MMM Forum to questions (from you and others)with complete honesty and I, quite frankly don't care if you feel it trustworthy or not, that's up to you.

As to this evenings Dateline 20/20 report of Maura's disappearance, they report what they are given. Main Stream Media has played an important role in keeping the Murray family's plight in our minds and hearts, believe a third of what you hear, half of what you read and ALL THAT YOU EXPERIENCE. If you give me the benefit of the doubt and believe half of what I tell you, you will be ahead of MSM.

WeWii, I wouldn't take to much stalk in what you've heard/read on that issue. I've read the same stuff and won't waste any more time on this person's foolishness, of course that's up to you.

As I've stated to you all, I don't have a thin skin and expect no alpologies from any of you, nor will I give any if your feelings get hurt by what I post, take up needlepoint if you can't deal with it.

Respectfully,

Weeper
PS sense Shack has addressed me as Frank, my name is Francis Patrick Kelly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4269
August 20, 2008

Hello All,

Advocator Post #4266...to answer your question about a volunteer fire depertment meeting on the evening of 2-9-04 there was in fact a meeting and training session at the firehouse that evening. In fact, there were about 7-9 firefighters who responded (with and on one fire truck) to the incident at the Weathered Barn soon after Sgt. Smith responded.

Good point Advocator and Bill, that it makes perfect sense to send a BOLO out to the volunteers over thier CB's (and to all the citizens who listen in on these calls as well), more eyes on the road looking for a wandering female.

Which brings me to remark on the previous posts that suggest the police department (officers) in Haverhill were in any way connected to Maura's disappearence and/or abduction. At no time or in any way have I or any member of our PI Team ever suggested a "rouge cop or cop wanna-be" was behind this crime.

The most that was suggested was that the incident was not handled properly from the start.

The physical condition of the Saturn would have alerted any competently trained police officer to look for awing(skid marks) and debris on the roadway in the immediate area, there wasn't any at that location.

To this day the Media and "most people" think the car skidded off the road into the snow bank and hit a tree even knowing the Saturn was facing away from the snow bank and trees.

In fact, the actual location of the Saturn was not at the tree with the "blue bow" on it, the location was another one hundred feet east of that tree.

Hope this eases some minds that we (the PI Team)are not putting this crime/disappearence on the citizens or officials in the town of Haverhill.

Respectfully,

Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4423
August 25, 2008

To all, if I may

With reference to documents/videotapes being accepted as evidence (Court Exhibit #132, etc.) and presented in a Trial Court, the author of that document/videotape is required to be present to “authenticate” the Exhibit. The exception to this rule is when both the State (Plaintiff in a Civil matter) and the Defense agree to its authentication a Judge will generally accept the Exhibit and introduce it into evidence.

Contrary to WTF’s belief, sometimes attorneys (even apposing Counsel) will agree on the introduction of documents and or videotapes into evidence without them being authenticated to save the Courts time.

Obviously a videotape (time dated) speaks for itself or “stands-alone” as you put it but, almost always has to be authenticated by the person who took the videotape or completed the document.

Police Reports are always “subjective” thereby open to challenge after a thorough document evaluation by the opposing side.

Police Reports/Accident Reports sometimes tend to be very much open to interpretation (as are most all writings) in that we are taught very young in life to write in a chronological order to tell a story, and that’s exactly what you read in these documents, a story.

Often times, when a Police Report/Accident Report is written days (or weeks later, as in accident reports which have to be filed within 15 days of the accident) facts arise “out of order” yet appear chronologically in a Police Report. Sometimes this practice of putting “facts” out-of-the-order they are learned (or in a chronologic order to make ones story flow) can turn a case around at Trial.

Example would be discovering evidence in a vehicle, then using that evidence in an “Affidavit in Support of a Search Warrant”(the legal instrument to conduct the search) to search the vehicle then re-discovering the same evidence.

Police officers are not lawyers and most don’t understand “case law”. Ask any police officer what gives him/her the “authority” to stop you for speeding and they will say something like “I’m a police officer, that’s my authority.”

Their “authority” is the Statue/RSA/General Law you violated not the badge on their shirts or the gun on their hip. The “story” in this accident report boils down to everyone justifying their actions or inactions. I’m sure everyone expected Maura to show up in a few days after she “sobered up”. They were wrong.

Respectfully,

Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL

Post # 4433
August 25, 2008

WTF Post #4431
Bill,

During my younger years as a patrol office I did have similar situations of “walk-away” accidents (though I was employed by a large Metropolitan Police Department) and we generally had our duty sergeant called to the scene, leaving the decision to the more experienced officer.

In Maura’s situation, Bill Sergeant Smith was the second in command at the Haverhill Police Department. We have to assume he was trained to be observant and base his decisions on whatever evidence is present at all scenes he comes across.

Had I arrived at that scene I would have made some remarkable similar assumptions as had Sgt. Smith with respect to speaking with those witnesses (the Westmans and Mr. Atwood) who were close to or on scene, and with respect to a casual inspection of the vehicle from outside the locked doors of the contents within. The major problem I have was with the external damage to the vehicle, the positioning of the vehicle and the lack of evidence in the roadway to support the accident occurred at that location.

If Sgt. Smith said there were no signs of foul play I have to take this to mean he didn’t see anything unusual about the scene in general. This assumption is very disturbing to me if I am to credit the officer with being knowledgeable of accident scenes and having “experienced judgment”.

If say for instance, it was a young officer just on the force for three months came to these conclusions I would chalk it up to ignorance, but don’t we all expect more from an experienced police sergeant?

I think there were a lot of activities going on that Monday evening (what they all were I couldn’t begin to guess) and I don’t think the police were prepared for some of those activities. Could Sgt. Smith have done things differently? I don’t know, I wasn’t there and I’m not going to “armchair” what could/should have been done.

I will credit the Haverhill Police Department for having done some things to locate the operator of that Saturn, unlike the officer in Brianna Maitland’s (sp) abandoned vehicle (stuck in the side of a barn building) who decided to take care of “business” when he returned from his weekend off.

Some officers are more proactive than others, some are just plain lazy and others are just plain mean. I am not going to beat up the police for what they did or didn’t do, nor am I going to tow the company line and agree with everything they do.

The police are here to serve and protect the citizens but as I was told by the owner of the Stage Stop Store three years ago “We are our first line of defense up here, until the police arrive.” And she is 100% correct in that advice.

Way back in the mid-seventies (that’s when I was a young police officer) the EMT service was part of the police department, I first worked on the “meat-wagon”(a gum-balled station wagon with a portable stretcher) as a medic-police officer and we had many “walk-away” accidents where most often they were intoxicated or the vehicle came back as stolen.

On several of those occasions the person was later found falling into a pond and drowning, stumbling into on-coming traffic and getting hit or passed out in a ditch down the road.

Any of these things could have happened to Maura in the early days….but they didn’t, as we now know. Hope this clears up a few questions you may have had.

Euro...#4432 Post

Unfortunatly Euro, I can not respond to any inquiry as to where or when searches were conducted or will be conducted on this or any "public" forum. I'm sure you understand the reason for this.
Respectfully

Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
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Post # 4560
August 29, 2008

WTF Post # 4558...

Bill,
I see where CS's "tire impressions in the snow" can look confusing. Remember the SBD said he was nose-to-nose with the Saturn? Also the witness who returned from Cottage Hospital stated "the black Bronco police vehicle (CS's unit) was nose-to-nose with the Saturn"...these statements indicate the Saturn's rear wheels were furthest into the snowbank while the front tires were nearly parallel to the roadway.

I have no idea what CS was trying to convey to the reader with this diagram. Notice also he says "trees" and indicates three such trees. Also note the four word notation "Vehicle at Final rest" with the diagram of the vehicle clearly in the roadway.

So the combination of the "tire impressions in snow" + "Trees" + "vehicle at final rest" = the Saturn was trveling west, slid into the snowbank, struck the trees spun around and bounced back into the roadway. Never happened that way, and yes you are absolutley correct...photographs would most certainly clear this issue up.

First off, there aren't three trees that close to the roadway large enough to cause that scenerio, secondly there is a rather deep ditch just on the other side of the snowbank, thirdly the Saturn didn't come to "final rest" on the roadway.

Draw your own conclussions as to CS's diagraming of the "accident scene". Don't know if I've answered your question (and a very good question indeed, Bill) you're the only one who caught this part of the report with a questioning eye. Nice catch, now find the other 20+ descrepancies in this report and you and I will be on the same sheet of music.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Post # 4694
September 5, 2008

To all,

I should have read LT Tragg's response prior to posting with reference to HPD IMC data-system. As to any/all searches done (or to be done)by the State or by our Team.

At no time will any search organization give advance notice to the public as to the areas plotted to be searched, ever. Unless the object of the search is discovered, the public will not be told the results or locations of those searches when completed.

Even when we organized the two-day search back in 2006, only those Team Leaders in the "Operations Room" knew where they were going to be dispatched, all the searchers where informed when they arrived at thier grid-locations.

Those who attended that search will recall they were seperated from everyone else in the Operations Room downstairs at the Ski Lodge.

Remember, those responsible for this disappearence are in the public and until they are behind bars the public will not be informed about what is or is not being investigated.

Respectfully,
Weeper

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Post # 4791
September 9, 2008

To all, if I may
Off Topic Post

It’s true that Routes 91 and 89 go both ways but there are quite a few “rest-areas” along the way. Whenever we get tired (frustrated, infuriated or disgusted) we should pull into one of these rest areas and take a break (think clearly, objectively and impersonally) before we decide where the journey ends.

During one of my many voyages up to Haverhill, NH in the late fall season of 2006 I stopped over at a local restaurant in Swiftwater for an early breakfast. During this period I was incognito (no shirt and tie, suit jacket and shined shoes on this visit), wearing a red-checkered hunting jacket, scent-free boots and a blaze- orange cap.

It was bow-hunting season and I was there “scouting” areas to later be searched by our Team. It truly is beautiful wilderness country up in the Great North Woods and hunting is not a pass time up there, it’s a way of life for many Northern NH residents. So as not to insult anyone I won’t mention the name of the restaurant (all the locals know the one I refer to) but it’s very large and I was seated alone at a table perusing my Topo-maps while waiting for my breakfast.

There were four men seated at a table behind me, similarly attired, discussing a house fire the previous night and laughing about the total loss of the property when one of the men said “….they got what they deserved” and the others agreed. These four men were not out-of-towners nor were they hunters; they were local guys of the lowest ilk.

My breakfast arrived (it was a huge breakfast for the cost of a Dunkin Donuts meal) and as I ate I overheard several comments about this one and that one, who the “rats” were (informants) and what they had in mind in dealing with these people. Now during the hour I was there I “ear-witnessed” those referred to here on this forum as “scum-bags/dirt-bags” first hand. There is little doubt in my mind that there are some very bad people living up in that area, criminals in fact.

I have posted my gratitude and admiration for all the wonderful, good Christian citizens in and around the Haverhill, NH area who have assisted and participated in the search for young Maura Murray. All those good, caring, loving people are living (with or without blinders on, for their own peace of mind) amongst the likes of those four men and others like them.

I am also a registered voter in the great State of New Hampshire and proud to say so, but I take no offense when someone from another state/country has negative things to say about my state/city or neighborhood simply because I’m doing my part in balancing the scales.

Every poster has the right to post what he/she feels on this public forum, it would be nice if the posts are related to Maura’s plight, before/during and after her disappearance. However, even if the posts are not directly related to the topic-at-hand (as this one is) they are necessary to give us insight into our fellow posters….Caveman/Lawyer/SockPuppet….only in California..LOL. Stick around Elsewhere and anyone else who gets tired; use the “rest-areas” before you end your journey.

Respectfully, Weeper PS….I did see two Does while in the forest that weekend but kept my arrows in the quiver since I’d already put venison in the freezer that year.

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Post #4792
September 9, 2008

Wowzer wrote:
"Weeper, with all due respect did you report the suspicious activities of these 4 men to the police? Commenting on what they had in mind in dealing with informants sounds pretty threatening if you ask me and they must have been complete idiots to sit next to a stranger in a restaurant and say these incriminating things for all to hear.

If you reported it you just might have saved a life. Did you? No one has ever said there are no bad people in Haverhill/ Bath/ Swiftwater/ Woodsville area. There are bad people everywhere in this world but to put all the people in an area in the same catagory as a few bad apples is wrong. Sorry. Umm it seems that someone came and took that large restaurant in Swiftwater that you speak of because I've never seen it."

Wowzer,

Yes I did report the conversation I overheard to the authorities along with descriptions date/time and registration numbers from two vehicles, I have a duty to do so. These guys were not sitting next to me, they were behind me and they didn't seem to concerned who may have overheard them.

The location was actually in Haverhill accross from the Nooktia Motel (incorrect spelling, I'm sure) not Swiftwater, my error. I am not putting all people in an area into the same catagory as a few bad apples, Wowzer I simply stated my experiance at that encounter. I also mentioned "the good Christian, loving, caring people who have assisted and participated in the searches for Maura" from that same area, they are certainly not in the same catagory as those four criminals.

I live in the largest city in this state, downtown in fact so I don't have to travel any further than accross the street to bump into "really bad people", yet I love this city and never said there wasn't any bad people here. If you found any insult in my post maybe you are lookng at it wrong, I don't know.

Weeper

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Post # 4855
September 11, 2008

To all, if I may,

Part 1 of 2

I would like to address the issues arising from you review of the Police Accident Report of record. I will be using all capital lettering to distinguish between Jerry Fletcher’s questions and my response. I am not yelling at anyone, fair enough?

Page 239, Post #4806

Part 2 Spent some time looking at the accident report…some observations:

*No indication that there were any tire marks in the street (only tire marks in the snow)

There are also not remarks about debris or yawing marks in the roadway or around any “trees” for that mater.

*No Traffic conrols…question for Weeper…wouldn’t a double yellow line qualify as a traffic control/no passing zone (probably neither here nor there, but a question)

Node # 4 does have a #6-visible road markings, this was not circled which would imply there were no yellow lines on the road.

ON “MOST” STATE HIGHWAYS IN NH, STATE ROADS DO HAVE “DOUBLE-YELLOW SOLID AND/OR BROKEN LINES” DOWN THE CENTER OF THE ROADWAY TO CONTROL LANE USE. ON THIS STRETCH OF ROUTE 112 THERE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN SUCH LINES. IF THERE WERE SUCH MARKINGS ON THE ROADWAY, THEY MAY HAVE BEEN FADED TO THE POINT OF BEING USELESS. I CAN ONLY ASSUME THE ROADWAY HAD NO SUCH MARKINGS IN 2004.

*Additional Roadway Features…why a question mark…why not ‘none of the above’

Node #6 selection #4 should have been circled, you are correct here.

*Road Alignment…another question mark…this one does seem to me to be important

NODE # 7 SELECTION # 1-STRAIGHT AND LEVEL SHOULD HAVE BEEN CIRCLED. THE SATURN CAME TO REST WELL BEYOND THE CURVE IN THE ROAD. THE OFFICER’S 500 FOOT MEASUREMENT FROM THE INTERSECTION WITH BRADLEY HILL ROAD IS MORE ACCURATE THAN THE “BLUE-BOW” TREE.

*Road Surface Dry…seems this is also important since you would be more apt to have visible tire marks without snow or ice on the surface

IF THE ROADWAY WERE “OTHER THAN DRY”, HOW WOULD ONE EXPLAIN A “SPIN-OUT AND CRASH” WITHOUT IMPLYING DRIVER IMPAIRMENT, AS IS STATED IN NODE #20, SELECTION #2?

*Apparent Pre-Accident Vehicle Action…following the roadway?????? Doesn’t seem right to me

Node # 16 does have a #20-other vehicle action, which should have been circled if the officer believed the vehicle “skidded and then hit a tree”. There is no selection for “none of the above”

Weeper

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Post # 4856
September 11, 2008

Part 2 of 2

Question…are these reports supposed to be what the officer witnessed or a combination of what witnesses observed along with the officer? Maybe I’m nitpicking here, but “a later search of the vehicle” could only conclude that Maura belongings were in the vehicle, not necessarily that she was driving.

KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS AN “ACCIDENT REPORT” AND EACH “NODE” SHOULD BE FILLED OUT AS THE OFFICER SEES IT. ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM WITNESSES ARE TO BE FILED IN A SECOND REPORT, HENCE THE NOTATION AT THE END OF THE NARRATIVE “SEE HPD CASE #04-179-OFF”.

You are not being “nitpicking” at all, Jerry Fletcher. Each of these “nodes” are supposed to help paint a picture when viewed collectively. If you find contradictions between the separate nodes such as Node #27-Occupant Condition-Unknown circled with Node #30-Occupant’s/Injured’s Position-Driver circled….THEN THERE’S A PROBLEM.

Again with the nitpicking…if the box of wine was behind the driver’s seat and assuming that the red liquid in the bottle found in the street and on the ceiling of the car were from that wine box, it would seem to indicate that the bottle was filled when the vehicle was stopped and had enough in it to splash up on the ceiling of the car and still have some in it when it was found on the road (accident report says it was empty).

NOW I”LL “NITPICK” JERRY, THE REPORT DOES NOT SAY THE BOTTLE WAS EMPTY, IN FACT IT SAYS “…I RECOVERED A COKE BOTTLE THAT CONTAINED A RED LIQUID WITH A STRONG ALCOHLIC ODER”

Of course that assumes that the bottle hadn’t been there before the accident (probably a reasonable assumption, but an assumption nonetheless).

I realize that there is no scale to the drawing, but it seems that where the car is indicated is much closer to SBD’s house than I would have thought from the pictures I’ve seen. In fact, if it was 500 feet from Bradley Hill Road, much closer and seemingly well beyond where one would have ended up after missing the curve.

THIS IS TRUE, THE VEHICLE CAME TO REST CLOSER TOWARD THE INTERSECTION OF ROUTE 112 AND BRADLEY HILL ROAD.

Don’t know what all that about nodes means, but hopefully Weeper will explain, because it seems like it might be important.

Another question, unless tire impressions were taken that night could it be determined to any degree of certainty that they were in fact from Maura’s car or even from that night?

I HOPE THIS HELPS ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS JERRY, THERE ARE SEVERAL CONTRADICTIONS IN THIS DOCUMENT. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO CONDUCT YOUR OWN REVIEW AND YOU SHOULD COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSSION AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION THEREIN.

Respectfully,

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Post # 5386
September 30, 2008

To all, if I may

Part 1 of 2

With reference to Saturn’s final resting place in the snow bank and the witnesses’ statements to Sgt. Smith within the first half hour of the incident. There has always been speculation as to the identity of the driver of the Saturn that evening for the following reasons. The first witnesses, the Westmans, initially stated they heard acceleration then a loud “thud” and when they looked out their window they saw a woman sitting in the passenger seat with the door open smoking a cigarette.

Most of us agreed that it was more likely Maura attempting to use her cell phone that caused the “glowing” effect that the Westmans assumed to be a cigarette since Maura didn’t smoke. It now seems probable that the person the Westmans identified as a woman was based on their observation of a person with long hair sitting in the front passenger side of the Saturn.

It wasn’t until two years later that we determined the front end damage to the Saturn didn’t occur at the curve near the Weathered Barn and that damage was the result of an “overhang” object. Please bear with me here, this “assumption” that Maura was the person the witnesses saw may have been a mistake.

The Westmans stated what they saw and may have been convinced the person was in fact Maura or at least a female by all the media coverage and the family and searchers. They are good honest people who did everything they could to help find the poor girl. They said they stopped watching when Mr. Atwood showed up with the school bus shortly thereafter.

Now we come to the second witness “on scene” who was much closer to the Saturn than anyone else that night, while it was occupied. We all have heard the many variations of what he stated about what was said to him and what he claims to have seen.

Over the years the media, police and everyone else continues to quote Mr. Atwood’s version of events from that evening because it all seemed to fit, on the surface. However, his actions that evening were very peculiar to his neighbors. One action in particular stands out, the way he parked the bus that evening.

He backed the bus all the way up beside the house to an outbuilding and after a brief moment when he went into the house and told his live in girlfriend what happened (she was in fact the person who called the Grafton County Sherriff’s Department) he went back out and sat in the bus until Sgt. Smith walked down and spoke to him through the open door.

To grasp the oddity of this action (as his neighbor did that evening) we need to understand that his girlfriend also drove a full size school bus and they always parked them in front of the house where the State installed a large floodlight (just like a street light on a public street) right on his property at the intersection with Bradley Hill Road.

Had he parked his bus in it’s “usual” parking spot he would have had a clear, unobstructed view all the way up to the stranded Saturn, 560 feet (I measured it). He also claimed to have seen several vehicles pass that intersection but couldn’t identify any of them. He had never parked his bus like this, before or after, since that evening.

This witness’s statements and actions leave a lot to the imagination. Mr. Atwood knows a lot more about what happened that evening but he’s not talking, especially to our investigators. He may have given LE different statements but those documents are not available to the public or the PI Team (as I said before, we don’t want them nor do we need them).

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Post # 5387
September 30, 2008

Part 2 of 2

The reason for my posting this information is in the hopes that Ben Franklin can factor some of this information into his previous analysis (which I find to be very interesting by the way Ben, thank you).

Also consider this, when shown a photograph of Maura, Mr. Atwood stated “well it looks like her but her hair was down”. This statement in and of itself covers any other witness statement that they saw a woman in the vehicle that evening, the identifier being the “long hair”.

This is what I meant by a “Maura look-alike”(to the Westmans, not Atwood), a man with long hair. If you are going to ask me if I believe Mr. Atwood was lying when he talked to the media and the police, my answer would be yes. It wasn’t a mistake, it was a deliberate deception.

Remember also when Sgt. Smith arrived and spoke with the Westmans, he asked them if they had “seen where the female from the Saturn had gone” and they told him they hadn’t, he asked that question because it was Mr. Atwood’s girlfriend who called and told Grafton County dispatch that her “husband” asked her to call about a female having run off the road.

That statement from Sgt. Smith indicated believed it was a female and the Westmans assumed it was a female smoking in the front passenger seat of the Saturn when initially they thought it was a man. This is a long post, but you all wanted a bit of information and this is just one component of an investigation, analyzing witness statements.

I do not, nor have I ever, believe Sgt. Smith was in any way connected to Maura’s disappearance. His filling out and filing of the “official public accident report” may have been flawed and inaccurate but not done so with any malicious intent.

Respectfully
Weeper

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Post # 10969
Friday, December 26, 2008

Sugar wrote:
"Weeper. Will you meet with me? Yes or no. If so, when?"

Sugar/Trout/Ms Flo....Sure I'll meet with you at the Dunkin Donuts (along with Det. Columbo)in Woodsville on Feb 9, 2009 at noon. Will you all be coming in one vehicle or in seperate vehicles?
Weeper

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Post # 10972
Friday, December 26, 2008

To all if I may,

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify some basics about the Maura Murray Task Force, the group of private investigators who volunteered their time and expertise in this investigation. Back in November of 2005 several private investigators, all members of the Licensed Private Detective Association of Massachusetts (LPDAM) and the New Hampshire League of Investigators (NHLI), were at an annual meeting of the LPDAM and learned that association had formed a volunteer group of investigators to look into the disappearance of Jennifer Fay of Brockton, Massachusetts. The group of investigators from NHLI (myself included) decided we should follow the example of the Massachusetts association and get our association involved in a similar endeavor.

Four members of NHLI formed the Maura Murray Task Force on December 7, 2005 (Pearl Harbor Day) and on December 13, 2005 we drove to Weymouth Massachusetts and we met with Fred Murray and his family for the first time and explained what we wanted to do (of nine “missing persons cases, this was the one we chose) and began the tedious task of gathering background information and what facts were available at that time.

We proposed to our association (NHLI) the formalization of the Task Force and garnered eight additional investigators (from as far away as Maine, Vermont and Massachusetts) of varying degrees of expertise.

Not one member of the Task Force ever received a dime for the work on this investigation nor would we ever attempt to collect any “reward” for the results of our involvement when the investigation concluded. In early 2006 we had at our disposal contacts in STALK (System to Apprehend Lethal Killers) who provided “criminal profiles” in this matter, hence the “criminal profilers” mentioned in this Forum.

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Weeper
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Post # 10973
Friday, December 26, 2008
Part 2 of 2

Working with the family, friends, Connecticut Search and Rescue (who have volunteered their time and cadaver-dogs in several searches thus far), and Law Enforcement on the State (NH) level and local contacts we moved our investigation along and (to date) came to the same conclusions as had law enforcement, this is not a missing person case, it’s a recovery at this stage, make no mistake about this.

There is a poster on this site who changes his handle (moniker) more times than anyone else posting and talks in riddles (having nothing to do with Maura Murray), maligns the volunteer PIs, the Connecticut SAR and offers no supporting facts to his foolishness.

I look forward to meeting this person, though I feel confident he’ll not travel to distance to Woodsville, New Hampshire to meet with me and Detective Columbo on Feb. 9, 2009.

Dawn,

Yes, we do believe there was an “accident” prior to the Weathered Barn though we don’t believe it was an accident. It wasn’t until the summer of 2006 that I was able to access the Saturn and photograph (the photos on the old MMM site were taken by me with Fred Murray at my side) the damage.

When searches were conducted during the summer of 2006, there was little hope of finding any viable evidence connected to Maura’s Saturn. The damaged driver’s side headlight remained intact and the best we could hope for was one of two “plastic-clips” missing from the undercarriage/bumper.

Metal detectors turned up several coins, bottle caps and a few lug-nuts, nothing from the Saturn though we didn’t walk the entire route down Route 112 from Route 25 heading toward the Weathered Barn.

We did check around the damaged “guardrails” but realized the damage to the Saturn was not consistent with the height and width of the guardrails. Hope this answers some of your questions.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Post # 10998
Friday, December 26, 2008

Dawn wrote:
I would also like some feedback from Weeper or Det Columbo - What is your take on the rag in the tailpipe? That is hard figure that one out. It just seems so odd
Dawn,

My take on the rag in the tailpipe is that it was placed there during the time witnesses observed "the trunk of the Saturn being opened and closed" at the Weathered Barn.

The reason MAY have been to imply an attempt to disable the vehicle at a previous location or to cast opinions toward an attempted suicide (and it worked for awhile). I do not believe Maura was in the Saturn where it ultimately came to rest.

The front end damage to the Saturn is compatable to "overhang, metal-to-metal" damage by an object 18-24 inches from ground level. This is consistent with any number of vehicles such as a pick up truck, the I-beam frames under Blue-Bird school buses, Winnibagos or other such vehicles.

We simply do not know what vehicle was responsible for the damage nor do we know if the driver of the Saturn (presumably Maura) "ran into a vehicle" or if the vehicle backed into the Saturn deliberately causing what may have been the first reported accident at or about 7:00 PM on Feb. 9th as reported by those who heard this call.

Respectfully,

Weeper

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Where is MAURA MURRAY
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Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
Manchester, NH

Post #11386
Friday, January 2, 2009

oo00oo wrote:

"Weeper, my apologies if I am off base. Would you mind stepping in and confirming facts vs. rumor?

Who viewed the video of "Maura" in Amherst.? Who positively identified the video as it being Maura? Family states they did not see it.

Why did Fred not see the video?

Did police really photograph the Corolla at the shop, after the accident in Hadley?

The spider crack in the windshield, wasn't it caused by the airbag? Thought that was stated, now being said otherwise?

Thank you."

ooOOoo,

As far as I know, if there is any videotape from the ATM it was not viewed by Fred Murray or the family (sister, brother or extended family).... I do not know who, if anyone, positivley identified Maura from a videotape in Amherst.

If there was a videotape from Amherst and Fred was not offered an opportunity to view it, I can only assume the police consider it as evidence. I will not speculate as to thier reason for "sealing" any particular piece of evidence or what value it may hold.

We (the PI Team) are not privy to the State's investigation (who they've interviewed, what they've photographed, or any "persons of interest" they may have set thier sights on)as it is an on-going investigation.

As to the accident with the Toyota in Hadley, I have no interest it that incident but would assume an adjuster/investigator from the insurance company photographed the vehicle, I see no reason why LE would photograph the vehicle.

In fact, I had no dealings with any investigation in Massachusetts, another Team member was tasked to interview some students at UMass. Amherst. That's why (way-back-when)I encourraged Philip (Whiston) to continue with his exploration at that end. My interests never left the Haverhill/Woodsville area, they still haven't for that matter.

As to the crack in the windshield, I can attest to the fact that it was caused by a solid object striking the inside upper left corner. Caused by the airbag?..in a round-about way perhaps.

I "believe" it was caused by a wristwatch worn on the left wrist while the airbag deployed (with the driver's left hand in the 10 o'clock position on the steering wheel (ask any EMT responding to head-on crashes and they will tell you broken wrists are very common with airbag deployments).

Also, the "spider-crack" was smaller than shown in the photograph I posted on the MMM site. After two winters left out in the eliments, the cracked in the windshield expanded.

Not much help to you, but it's all I can attest to of your questions, sorry...ooOOoo
Respectfully,
WEEPER

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The posts below were copied from the first forum at http://www.mauramurraymissing.com by Advocate4, administrator of the now Yuku forums, formerly http://findmauramurray.21.forumer.com. The forum at http://www.mauramurraymissing.com was no longer accepting posts previous and up to August 2008. It was probably closed a lot earlier than that, I just can't speak for how much earlier, because its beyond my personal knowledge. The quotes below are a copy of what Advocate4 wrote in her forum on December 15, 2008.

Advocate4
Site Admin
December 15, 2008

MY NOTE: I believe that these are all -- or almost all -- of the posts made by Weeper on the former MMM Forum. If anyone has others, please feel free to set them up as an additional Weeper Topic

Weeper's Posts from Former MMM Forum

1-31-06

Some of what has been posted on this site is "right-on-the-mark" as to Maura's disappearence and some information, erroniuosly misquated in the Media, is very far from being factual. LE in the "Twilight Zone" has conducted an awful lot of investigation in these past two years and I feel that with one or two pieces of physical evidence LE will pounce very quickly on certain individuals and bring this case to a close. Feb. 9, 2006 will be the two-year anniversity of Maura's disappearence and I know that several PI's will be all over the "crime scene" area. Yes, I said crime scene, because although LE is calling this a "Missing Person" case, they certainly know better and are/have been treating this case as a criminal investigation. I hope many of you out there will be in Haverhill on the 9th and show your support to the Murray Family and the VOLUNTEER PI Task Force.

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3-23-06

I have been away on vacation and read the update pages missed in my absence. I read a lot of information garnished from the media about witnesses, lighting, distances and cell phone reception and so forth as relating to the "accident" site. I have some facts relating to the accident scene location, gathered in both daylight and at the time of the accident.

If we assume that the accident occured at the location of the "Big-Blue Ribbon" afixed to a standing pine just east of the Weathered Barn, down from Old Peters Road the measurements are as follows:

From the "Big-Blue" ribbon east toward the intersection of Bradley Hill Road to where the school bus was parked on that night is 560 feet. To the front of SBD house (inclosed porch) the distance is 530 feet.

From the blue ribbon 300 feet east (100 yards) brings one to the edge of a property belonging to another resident on the accident side(eastbound) of the road and a small open field on the westbound side of the road.

The search dog followed a scent 100 yards eastbound and became confused and went no further.

The moon phase (though somewhat overcast on the evening of these observations, and snow soon began to fall) cast moonlight visable on the road begining from this 100 yard mark east down to the intersection of Bradley Hill Road. The Lodgepole Pines and Blue Spruses on the eastbound side of the road blocked moonlight and the roadway remaines in shadow.

The lighting at the intersection of Bradley Hill Road and 112 eastbound is good enough to not only see vehicles go by, but good enough to identify an Outback and pick up trucks.

The line of sight from the porch at SBD house looking toward the big blue ribbon is obstructed by several Lodgepole Pines and "scrubb-brush". Line of sight from the 100 yard mark is unobsructed.

The line of sight from the backed-in parked school bus (which was actually facing west) to the disabled vehicle would have been 540 and completly unobstructed all the way to the accident scene.

More facts to come...I've taken up enough space for now. I will not answer questions or qualify this information on this site. Those who know me, know me. Those who don't, I ask you trust my words and I ask your feedback.

There are some out there following this site who are in the Harverhill community that has something we all need, information and compassion.

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2-01-06

Responding to Pike

From the start, Feb. 9, 2004 there has always been "an ominous undercurrent" to the events of that evening. Statements made by the first responding officer at the scene..."We checked DMV and found the vehicle registered to Fred Murray, 61 year old man...."We found only one set of footprints leading from the vehicle..." "I arrived at the scene [from a westerly direction] and did not see anyone on the road from that direction.." "We searched along the roadway [both directions from the accident scene] and found no footprints in the snow leading into the woods.." "Left in a Private Vehicle..." [two months later] "Witness comes forward, sighted Missing Woman running along Rt.112 about five miles east of the accident..."

[THE ABOVE ARE NOT EXACT QUOTES]

The latest from the Grafton County Courthouse, the denile of Fred Murray's attempts to get [at the very least] A SIMPLE ACCIDENT REPORT from LE because even this small bit of information might "hamper an ongoing [criminal??] investigation and lead to the distruction of evidence... It's pretty clear to this writer that the police are not treating this case as a missing person investigation. The media seems to be getting information before the family and this is sad. I think a lot of people are comming to the same conclussion, that LE knows a lot more than they're saying...and why not? Because they are crossing all thier Ts and dotting all thier I's and that's what they should be doing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2-1-06

I must apologize for using the term "erroniuosly misquoted" in the media, when I ment to say "inconsistant statements made to the media". As for indictments and such, I am of the opinion that LE is as aware of these inconsistancies as well and coupled with a Superior Court Judge stating something to the effect that two years is not an exceptionally long period of time for an "ongoing investigation" I am assuming [and I repeat assuming, only] that the State must have some pretty compelling cercumstantial evidence and the investigation is ,as they say, ongoing. I am only voicing an novice opinion and did not mean to deminish anyone's hopes and prayers for Maura's safe return and if I had, I apologize sincerley. I was an EMT many years ago, Pike. You are very preceptive in your annalysis. Weeper

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-27-06

Shack wrote: Weeper..I have one simple question that will not betray any sensitive information about this case. When the police find an abandoned MV....what is the normal time procedure in "running the plates".

tHE NORMAL TIME IS AT THE DISCOVERY OF THE ABANDONED VEHICLE. iN THIS CASE IT WAS DONE AND THE REGISTERED OWNER WAS fRED mURRAY, HOWEVER WHEN SGT. SMITH SPOKE TO "WITNESSES" AT THE SCENE HE WAS TOLD AT THAT TIME IT WAS A YOUNG WOMAN DRIVING THE VEHICLE.

The basis of my question is would the plate been run at the scene....on the way back to station....when arriving at station..next day..?

ASKED AND ANSWERED ABOVE.

One of the many minor things that have bugged me is ..."driving up the road, looking for a young girl" ...."ran the plates, found it was a 61 year old man"....huh...?

AGAIN, ASKED AND ANSWERED ABOVE....HE DID KNOW IT WAS A YOUNG WOMAN DRIVING THE DISABLED VEHICLE.

If I were police I might think that a young girl stole car ...?...and called Fred that night.....?

CORRECT ASSUPTION.

I for one feel better, having you around the corner....any smidgeon of a word or phrase gives me a bit of hope. Thank you for your input in helping the family..... (and the caring ones here at the Forum Family)

YOU ARE QUITE WELCOME, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTS AND QUESTIONS.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-23-06

With regard to the SBD, he was never a police officer, ever. Not in Taunton,Ma. or anywhere else. Please stop refering to him as such, regardless of what's been said to the media about him being a police officer.

The house he and his girlfriend (not his wife) lived in up in Haverhill belonged to his mother who also resided there. It was she who decided to sell the place and SBD handled the sale ad, and the closings.

He did in fact move to Florida where he currently resides.

The CW didn't see a woman on the roadway east on Rt.112 on the night Maura disappeared....

The accident scene was not cleared of vehicles (Tow truck, police and others) until well after he returned to his residence (a mobile home) at 8:00-8:30 PM on the corner of Bradley Hill and Rt112. How is it he didn't see what was going on 560 feet down the road? He did see what was going on...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-29-06

Susan wrote:
Weeper- So gald that you are able to help the Murray family!!
Do you think the SBD harmed Maura?

Susan

AT THE VERY LEAST, HE HARMED MAURA BY NOT REACTING "RESPONSABLY" THAT EVENING. IN FACT, HE STATED AS MUCH IN ONE OF HIS INTERVIEWS WITH THE MEDIA..... REMEMBER WHAT I SAID BEFORE "THERE ARE THRUTHS HIDDEN AMOUNGST HIS LIES"

on the bus.....and then later...daylight..morning driving away...and..
before his regular school day route......?
The dog traced the scent to end of his driveway..? Was the door
of the bus at the end of his driveway...?
Perhaps that is why he stayed in the bus....?

SHACK, PLEASE REVIEW THE MEASUREMENTS I POSTED....THE DOG DID NOT "TRACK MAURA'S SCENT TO THE END OF THE SBD DRIVEWAY...

THE REASON I POST THE INFORMATION I KNOW TO BE FACTUAL IS TO ASSIST ALL POSTERS IN DEVELOPING "NEW POSSIBILITIES AND THEORIES"....THIS CAN NOT BE ACCOMPLISHED IF FOLKS KEEP USING NONFACTUAL INFORMATION TO SUITE THIER THEORIES...DOING SO ONLY PUTS "BLINDERS" ON. YOU ARE ONE OF THE "THEORISTS" I RESPECT FOR YOUR INSIGHT...PLEASE HELP ME OUT HERE. THANK YOU

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-24-06

hydemi wrote: Weeper hints that he has special knowledge of Maura's case. Does he? If so he should not be posting here. He should be working directly with police or have supplied his information to the family.

HYDEMI, I AM POSTING HERE THE FACTS AS I KNOW THEM AND WHEN I KNOW THEM, TO ASSIST YOU ALL. I NEVER WORK DIRECTLY WITH THE POLICE, ONLY INDIRECTLY.

on 1/31 he says that soon "LE will pounce" on certain individuals because of new evidence.

WHEN PHYSICAL EVEIDENCE CONNECTED WITH THIS CASE IS DEVELOPED CONNECTING CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS, BELIEVE ME THE POLICE WILL ACT.

on 2/1 he says "LE knows a lot more than they are saying."

THE POLICE DO KNOW MORE THEN THEY ARE SAYING AND THEY SAID AS MUCH IN GRAFTON COUNTY COURT, DIDN'T THEY SAY IT IS AN ON-GOING INVESTIGATION.

on 2/1 he says "the State must have some pretty compelling circumstantial evidence" to deny Mr. Murray's second petition.

AGAIN, I REFER YOU TO THE ABOVE, IT IS AN ON-GOING INVESTIGATION BEING HANDLED BY THE NH STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

Then he says in the same email "I am only voicing a novice opinion."

IT IS MY OPINION. YOU GAGE THE "NOVICE" PART ON YOUR OWN SCALE IF YOU'LD LIKE.

on 3/23 he says there are "more facts to come" and that someone in Haverhill has more information and compassion.

THE TRUTH IS IN HAVERHILL, ONLY FACT BARES OUT THE TRUTH. THERE CERTAINLY WILL BE MORE FACTS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPASSIONATE, CARING PEOPLE UP IN HAVERHILL, NH WHO CARE ABOUT THIER COMMUNITY.

on 3/23 he states as facts certain new slants on the SBD, CW, and on the accident scene.

THE ACCIDENT SCENE WAS DISCUSSED, AS TO THE SBD AND THE CW THERE ARE FACTS ABOUT THEM THAT HAVE NOT BEEN POSTED (AND MAY NOT BE POSTED IN THE FUTURE ON THIS POST) SO WE GO BACK TO MY OPENING STATEMENT WHEN I RETURNED FROM VACATION "THOSE WHO KNOW ME, KNOW ME. THOSE WHO DON'T, TRUST IN MY FACTS (OR HYDEMI, IN YOUR CASE DON'T....MATTERS NOT TO ME)

We are curious as to the sources of his claims of special knowledge.

GOOD, CURIOUSITY KEEPS THE BRAIN CELLS JUICED....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-26-06

tucketgirl wrote:
is Atwood's house for sale right now? Currently on the market? I can get in if that is the case, legally, but that is all I can say, I'm sort of afraid of who reads stuff here. Also, is it in the public Multiple Listing Service in NH? Also if things are found in the house and there is no search warrant, then isn't it likely that any proof would not be allowed in a court of law if found?

THIS HOUSE WAS SOLD TO A COUPLE FROM MASSACHUSETTS AND HAS HAD THE INSIDE PRACTICALLY GUTTED AND REDONE BY THE NEW OWNERS.

Just wondering. I'm thinking that it might be important for a bunch of us to head up there and search around a bit, is there another search organized for the near or far future? I know a lot of us would go in a heartbeat.

THERE WILL BE SEARCH TEAMS ASSIGNED AREAS OF SEARCH BY THE PRIVATE INVESTIGATION TEAM IN THE EARLY SPRIG, AGAIN DIFFERANT LOCATIONS THAN WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED...DON'T WANT TO REINVENT THE WHEEL HERE. I STRONGLY URGE FOLKS NOT TO INTERFERE WITH WHAT IS CURRENTLY UNDERWAY.

I'd like to get into that house, any chance anyone knows the address or if it's up for sale through a real estate firm or is it a for sale by owner thing?

ASKED AND ANSWERED ABOVE.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-27-06

peripeteia wrote:
Weeper I just wrote a long post, and lost it your spared the angony. Was waiting for Helena to confirm about the information,,,,,before I responded.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND THE "POSTERS" APPREHENSION AT TAKING ME FOR MY WORD....HOWEVER IN MY PROFESSION...MY WORD IS MY LIVLIEHOOD. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I WOULD LOVE TO POST EVERYTHING I KNOW, BUT TO DO SO WOULD NOT BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE FAMILY, THE INVESTIGATIVE TEAM OR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN BRINGING THOSE RESPONSIBLE TO JUSTICE.

Well this says that the cw lied. Why?

CW (OR LE MISQUATED HIM FOR THIER OWN PURPOSE...THOUGH I DON'T WANT TO BELIVE THIS..) LIED BECAUSE HE MAY HAVE HAD A HIDDEN AGENDA....THAT BEING TO PULL THE SEARCHES (SCHEDULED FOR THE EARLY SPRING) AWAY FROM THE LOCATION OF THE ACCIDENT....

Why does Butch Atwood Story and Cecil smith story differ so.

AGAIN, SBD LIED ABOUT A LOT OF DETAILS IN THIS CASE, BEING A FORMER POLICE OFFICER IS ONLY ONE OF THOSE LIES. AND HE IS BY NO MEANS "UNDER THE RADAR" OF THE INVESTIGATIVE TEAM OR LE JUST BECAUSE HE MOVED TO FLORIDA.

Why did the Cw make up such a story

AGAIN, HE HAD AN AGENDA. REMEMBER, HE DIDN'T GO TO LE WITH HIS REVELATION, HE WAS OVERHEARD DISCUSSING THIS WITH SOMEONE ELSE AND IT WAS REPORTED TO THE POLICE BY A THIRD PARTY...HE WAS NOW STUCK WITH THE "SIGHTING" STORY....WAS'NT HE.

Maura was not seen after the bus driver left? Did Maura go to the construction workers house, get a drive.

I DO NOT BELIEVED MAURA WENT UP TO THE CW'S HOUSE. NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE DOG/HANDLER TEAMS TRACKING ENDING SHORT OF THAT LOCATION, THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS IN CONSIDERING THE TOTALITY OF THE CERCUMSTANCES. REMEMBER THE CW LIVED IN A MOBILE HOME SET AT THE FAR CORNER OF HIS PROPERTY ON BRADLEY HILL ROAD AND WOULD HAVE REQUIRED ONE TO WALK UP BRADLEY HILL ROAD ANOTHER 50 YARDS TO THE MOBILE HOME. I CANNOT DISCUSS OTHER ADDITIONAL CERCUMSTANCES IN THIS FORUM...PLEASE UNDERSTAND.

The school bus driver should have been able to see

THE SBD WAS ABLE TO SEE IF (AND I SAY IF ONLY BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS AN AMOUNT OF TRUTH HIDDEN IN ALL FALSEHOODS) WE SELECT CERTAIN STATEMENTS HE'S MADE TO LE AND THE MEDIA BACKED UP LATER WITH FACTS.... SBD HAD AN UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW ALL THE WAY TO THE ACCIDENT SCENE WHILE SITTING IN HIS SCHOOL BUS. IN FACT ONE SHOULD ASK WHY DIDN'T SBD WALK DOWN TO THE ACCIDENT SITE WHEN SGT. SMITH ARRIVED ON SCENE..(HE BEING SO CONCERNED ABOUT MAURA'S SAFETY AND ALL) .WHY DID HE WAIT IN THE BUS FOR SMITH TO COME TO HIM?? THERE IS A WITNESS (YOU WILL NOT FIND THIS IN THE MEDIA OR ON THIS SITE..THIS FROM ME TO YOU ALL..AS PROMISED.) WHO PLACES SBD IN HIS BUS FOR "A LONG TIME" AFTER RETURNING TO HIS RESIDENCE.

The school Bus driver why does he say that he saw the airbags deployed.

I CAN'T ANSWER THIS QUESTION...BUT IF YOU KEEP IN MIND THAT AN AIR-BAG WILL IMMEDIATLY BEGIN TO DEFLATE AFTER FULL DEPOYMENT IS REACHED. AGAIN, IF YOU BELIEVE HE SAW MAURA "FROM THE NOSE UP BEHIND THE AIR-BAG" THEN HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE ON-SCENE AT THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENT...SE HOW THIS GETS TANGLED WHEN ONE DOSN'T TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH?

Why did he act so strangely.Why does his account of his actions differ so much from the witnesses the Westerman's

BECAUSE HE MIXED A LOT OF LIES INTO HIS TALES FOR WHATEVER REASON...HIS 15 MINUTE OF FAME?...SOME INVOLVEMENT?...OR BECAUSE HE LIES ABOUT A LOT OF INSIGNIFICANT THINGS AS HABIT...GET IT!

Wait to hear from more news, hopefully you have passed this on to law enforcement. district attourney for a grand jury..

I DO NOT WORK FOR THE POLICE, IN FACT I AM OFTEN AT ODDS WITH LE PROFESSIONALLY. I HAVE PASSED THIS INFORMATION ALONG TO OTHER ACTIVE APPROPREIATE INDIVIDUALS, INCLUDING THE FAMILY CONTACT AND THE PRIVATE INVESTIGATIVE TEAM.

Odd story the cw gave anyway, seemed like a daft story if I ever heard from, the question is where was he? Where did he go after work.....the school bus driver should have noticed if he came along right away...

AGAIN, SOME PEOPLE HAVE ANOTHER AGENDA IN THIS MATTER...AND YOU ARE CERTAINLY BRIGHT ENOUGH (I'VE READ EVERYTHING YOU'VE WRITEN AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE A GOOD GRASP ON THE DETAILS/AND DISCREPENCIES IN THESE "WITNESSES" STATEMENTS) TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS. I WILL CONTINUE TO HELP ALL OF YOU AND EXPECT ALL YOUR THEORIES AND COMMENTS WILL HELP ME WITH THIS CASE...I WILL NEVER GIVE UP ON THIS CASE UNTIL IT IS COMPLETLY RESOLVED....MY MIND IS WRAPPED AROUND THIS CASE AS TIGHT AS THE WHIPPING ON MY BOWSTRING...AND WON'T GIVE UP UNTIL I'M COMPLETLY WORN OUT AND SNAP.

I HOPE YOU ALL FEEL THE SAME WAY....DON'T GIVE UP BECAUSE ONE THEORY FALLS APART....ALWAYS KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND KEEP THE JUICES OF CURIOSITY FLOWING.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-27-06

mcsmom wrote:
Weeper,
I'm impressed.... but curious to know, with so much to go on, two people of primary interest... differing stories connected by lies. Did CW live there in 1984?

NO HE DID NOT LIVE IN hAVERHILL IN 1984 (AND I KNOW WHY YOU ASKED THIS QUESTION...OTHERS MISSING DURING THAT TIME PERIOD)

How many times were they incarcerated before, and for what?

wHO ARE YOU REFERING TO AS "THEY" FOR ONE?

Together? Boy, that's some neighborhood, and then toss in another low life down the street.

I WON'T COMMENT ON "THE OTHER LOW-LIFE DOWN THE STREET, THOUGH I ALSO KNOW WHO YOU ARE REFERING TO.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-28-06

hydemi wrote:
weeper,

can you say which of Atwood's lies are the significant ones, and what in your opinion these lies lead to or point to?

YES I CAN STATE WHICH LIES ARE SIGNIFICANT:
1 HE LIED ABOUT BEING A POLICE OFFICER TO GIVE HIMSELF A POSITION OF AUTHORITY AND RESPECTABILITY.
2 HE LIED ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE ACCIDENT SITE.
3 HE LIED ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE OR IDENTIFY VEHICLES THAT PASSED 20 FEET FROM HIM WHILE SITTING IN HIS BUS.
4 HE LIED ABOUT VIEWING MAURA "FROM THE NOSE UP ABOUVE THE INFLATED AIR BAG' (UNLESS, OF COURSE HE CAUSED THE ACCIDENT, AND I DON'T BELIEVE HE DID CAUSE THE ACCIDENT)

THERE ARE A FEW MORE AND THEY ARE ALL SIGNIFICANT.

I am glad to hear from Helena that you were in contact with her and will be in touch with the PI team—that was my goal in questioning the basis of your posts, which to be honest still remains murky to me but so be it if you have genuine knowledge.

I DO HAVE GENUINE KNOWLEDGE AND WILL SHARE WHAT I CAN WITH ALL WHO POST. AS I STATED FROM THE BEGINNING.

Can you say whether the CW arrived at the scene while Maura was still there as it would seem from his timeline if he left Franconia soon after 7pm?

I BELIEVE CW KNOWS A LOT MORE THAN HE IS TELLING...AND SO DO LE AND THE PRIVATE INVESTIGATIVE TEAM.

Could Maura in fact have chosen to run from the scene to get away from these guys, either as a precaution or in real fear?

YES. I ALSO BELIEVE MAURA MIGHT HAVE BEEN AVOIDING "THESE GUYS" AND LE AS WELL (HENCE SGT SMITH NOT SEEING HER WHILE ENROUTE FROM THE WEST HEADING EASTERLY ON ROUTE 112) BECAUSE OF HER RECENT ACCIDENT WITH HER FATHER'S VEHICLE.

And most importantly, do you believe Maura is dead and if so was she already dead on Wednesday when the family arrived, or even Tuesday?

THIS QUESTION IS VERY DIFFICULT TO ANSWER AS THE FAMILY MONITORS THIS SITE...HOWEVER, YES I (PERSONALY AND PROFESSIONALLY) BELIEVE MAURA IS NOW FREE OF FEAR, HARM, PAIN AND DANGER AND IS WITH THE LORD. NOW AFTER TWO YEARS I CAN NOT AND WILL NOT PRESUME WHEN MAURA DIED PERCISLEY BUT WOULD VENTURE TO GUESS WITHIN 72 HOURS OF HER ACCIDENT/ABDUCTION...IF STATISTICS IN THESE CASES PROVE TRUE....I'M SORRY TO SAY THIS IN SO PUBLIC A FORUM...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-29-06

HokieMom wrote:

Shack - I hope you didn't think I was yelling with my bold, underline - I was only trying to stress what I thought was new news from weeper You are correct - it was stated a number of times that the scent ended at the SBD driveway. I think that is because the scent ended 100 yds and the newspaper stated the SBD lived 100yds down the road - so one would assume that was the same place. Appears the SBD does not live 100 yds down the road.....he lives further. That's why I became intrigued with weepers post and prodded for more info from him/her.

BINGO..WHAT WAS REPORTED IN THE MEDIA THAT THE 100 YARD MARK WAS AT SBD DRIVEWAY WAS INCORRECT.

I am guessing that the square sign may be too far up the road. It's up by the bus, which would put it about 560ft from the blue ribbon - per weeper. The scent was lost 300ft (100yds) from the blue ribbon. I am guessing that is a little past the car??

THE "SQUARE SIGN' you are referring to is a state roadway sign read as one comes down Bradley Hill Road directing one to Woodsville in the westerly direction and Lincoln in the easterly direction. This sign is in fact at the SBD property line where he parks his bus.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-29-06

Congradulations to all who have posted these last two pages...I can feel the "think-tank" juices flowing!!

Please note that when I answer a "Quote" in capital letters I do this to seperate the question from the answer...I'm niether yelling nor emphisizing any particular point of fact or opinion, because I can't seem to get a grip on how to "color-font"..I'm old school and used to a pad of paper and a pencil...so bear with me here OK That said...I will continue.

To assume SBD or CW are the only players involved (on a minor or large scale) is a dangerous assumption. At no time is it appropreate to post a name and state an opinion such as "Tom Jones did it, I think he's guilty"....to do such a thing is not only innapropreate but is "liable" under the law. I caution all to be aware of this.

There are a number of inaccuracies in statements made to the Media..by witnesses..LE...and others...(some by honest mistake and some deliberate) we need to "weed out" these inaccuracies in order to build a strong circumstantial theory. This was/is my intent by posting facts that I am aware of to all.

I have recieved several PM's from posters and have tried to answer as many of them "off-site" and have actually spoken to some of these people and Im impressed with their knowledge and input. Any information posted to me directly (if of any value in this investigation) is directed to the PI Team and/or Helena.

I have also read the mis-understandings between posters on this site and can understand everyone's frustration, disappointment and stubborness when met with opposition to one's questions/answers and broken theories but we need to step back and think about what we are all doing here. This site isn't about Weeper, Shack, Helena, Pike, Hydemi, Pokeymom, or any individual poster...it's about INFORMATION.. (that was a deliberate capitization LOL) that is useful to resolution.

Some relate to this site of posters as a "Forum-Family"....that's fine and well..I relate to this site as "An Investigative Team" consisting of over 100 investigators!! ....doing the only thing they can do...think and express thier theories. The only differance between a debate and an argument is the tone of one's voice (and when writing, this tone is expressed in bold print and capitalizing or a combination of both...not to mention !!!!! as well). Let's all keep this in mind if we intend to be of any use to the Forum's intent, please.

I was asked if (in my proffesional opinion) I believed the tracking dog/handler was accurite on Maura's scent up to the 100 yard mark. My answer is "I don't know if it was accurite or not", however my personal knowledge of that exact stretch of road is that the lighting in that area, the line of sight from SBD's porch, and the shadows cast by the "Lodgepole" pines from the moonlight on Feb. 9, 200....(I leave this open as I wasn't there in 04) stops at that point. I feel this was a safety zone for anyone walking that stretch if they wanted not to be seen...

If the dog got confused and stopped there...this does not mean Maura did not walk further up toward Bradley Hill Road...however, she didn't go to SBD house when she was invited and I have no reason to believe she would have changed her mind after SBD parked his bus.

I do believe the sighting on Rt.112 by CW (according to statements by LE to the media identifying a young woman) was a ploy to draw the investigation further from the accident site.

Will continue to post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-29-06

Citigirl wrote:
Quote:
SearcherMe- If both air bags deployed then the SBD may not be lying.

THIS WOULD BE TRUE ONLY IF SBD ARRIVED AT OR IMMEDIATLEY AFTER THE ACCIDENT, AS I SAID BEFORE...AS SOON AS THE AIRBAG INFLATES COMPLETLEY IT BEGINS TO DEFLATE...ALL IN SECONDS...NOT MINUTES.

BUT lets not forget a couple of his fairy tails.
1. He claimed to be former LE which in fact he never was.
2. Claimed to not know the CW guess what he does. SBD has said because of his size that Maura may have been intimidated by him and afraid to except his help.

SEE, THE BRAIN-CELLS WORKING LOGICALLY HERE!!

So why would he go driving the roads searching for her.If she was afraid of him as he thinks then what would make him think that she would be willing to except his help at another location?

AGAIN, AN ASSTUTE OBSERVATION HERE!!! SO WHY THEN DO YOU THINK HE EVEN MENTIONED GOING OUT TO LOOK FOR HER...AND MORE TO THE POINT...WHY DID HE MENTION "I EVEN WENT DOWN TO FRENCH POND"...??

COME ON...IT'S boiling RIGHT THERE IN YOUR BRAIN...NICE WORK, CITIGIRL!!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-29-06

HokieMom wrote:
Jane wrote:
Entirely possible, but it's a much longer route around on 302. If I was headed that way 116 would be the logical way to go, just speaking as a local.

I thought that might be the "local" route. Thanks - that is good to know. I also thought it might be possible he opted to take the "better road", as it was snowing a little that night (altho that doesn't sound like something any guy I know would do )....or maybe he had to stop at the store on his way home.

I struggle, though, with what would even draw the CW to the accident scene, if he came home on 112 heading West? His house is about 560 ft before the scene. Altho I don't know if his driveway is on 112 or Bradley Hill Road, it would seem to me that (assuming the LE had yet to arrive) he might not even notice a car pulled off the road up ahead in that dark area. Granted his headlights would be shining in that direction...but even if he did, why would he drive up to the scene? There would be no way, at that point, for him to know it was a young girl.

THIS INQUIRY ABOUT WHY WOULD HE GO UP TO THE ACCIDENT SCENE WASN'T THE WAY I READ WHAT HE HAD TO SAY TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TWO MONTHS LATER ABOUT SEEING MAURA ON RT.112 5 MILES EAST....IT GOES TO HIS STATEMENT TO THEM ABOUT "CONFUSED ABOUT THE DATE THE GIRL WENT MISSING"....HE SAID HE THOUGHT IT WAS ON THE 11TH of feb, not the 9th. HIS DRIVEWAY THEN WAS OFF BRADLEY HILL ROAD BUT HE COULDN'T HAVE MISSED THE COMMOTION 560 FEET DOWN THE ROAD ON THE 9th COMING BACK FROM HIS JOB SITE IN FRANCONIA.

I can see him getting interested if he drove by the scene - I just can't see why he would go there, if he came from the east??

AGAIN, HE DIDN'T HAVE TO GO THERE TO KNOW SOMETHING WAS AMISS.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-30-06

Sooz wrote:
weeper wrote: AGAIN, AN ASSTUTE OBSERVATION HERE!!! SO WHY THEN DO YOU THINK HE EVEN MENTIONED GOING OUT TO LOOK FOR HER...AND MORE TO THE POINT...WHY DID HE MENTION "I EVEN WENT DOWN TO FRENCH POND"...??"

Maybe trying to send a message to someone that says "I know who you are and I saw what you did" (if he had an unobstructed view of all as stated), or "I saw it happen and know who did it," or y'all know who lives down on French Pond Road...maybe SBD saw another driver that night, someone passing by when he was either on his porch or sitting in the bus...someone who lives down by French Pond who has a prior police record or is "registered..." and SBD wanted to check out to see if that person had gone home or not...

AGAIN YOU ARE THINKING VERY LOGICLLY HERE...WHY INDEED WOULD HE MENTION "FRENCH POND" (NOT FRENCH POND ROAD) "I EVEN WENT TO FRENCH POND"....TO LOOK FOR HER...THERE WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR ANYONE WHO HAD AN ACCIDENT ON ROUTE 112 TO GO DOWN TO FRECH POND, NONE.

SO, SOOZ.....YOU ARE RIGHT!

What I don't understand is, if SBD is innocent of any wrong doing, and especially now that he is living in another state, "if" he knows who is involved or what happened, why doesn't he come forward and clear his name? What would he have to lose? If he was originally fearful for his own life or that of his family should he "talk," I would think that would be a moot point now and that he would want to talk about that night and clear his reputation. Just because he's a liar, doesn't mean he's an abductor or worse....

AGREED 100%, NO REASON OTHER THAN "ACCESSORY-AFTER-THE-FACT" "OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE" "INTERFEARING IN AN INVESTIGATION"...ALL FELONEYS.

Still pondering...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3-30-06

peripeteia wrote:
Perhaps someone saw the school bus driver on French Pond Road, and he knew this, therefore, there is but little choice to mention you were there, else, the person who saw you would tell!!!!!?

PERIPETEIA...NICE WORK, I SEE YOUR "BRAIN CELLS" ARE BACK UP AGAIN, CONGADULATIONS!!

SETTING UP AN "AFTER-THE-FACT" ALIBI FOR BEING SOMEWHERE YOU'RE NOT NORMALLY SEEN IS A COMMON "SHOT IN THE DARK" PLOY PEOPLE USE WHEN ARRESTED FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY BECAUSE AN ALIBI HAS TO BE PROVEN AS AN "AFIRMITIVE DEFENSE"

ALTHOUGH SBD WAS NEVER (AND AGAIN I REPEAT, NEVER A POLICE OFFICER) A POLICE OFFICER...HE WAS CERTAINLY A "WANNA-BE"...

HERE'S ANOTHER BIT FOR OUR "CYBER-GUMSHOE-TEAM"

WHY THEN DID SBD STATE HE WENT DOWN THERE AND AFETWARD ON HIS WAY BACK ..."I EVEN CHECKED THE SWIFTWATER CAFE, AND SHE WASN'T THERE EITHER"....

(I ALREADY HAVE MY OWN THEORY FOR THESE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS...BUT YOU ALL ARE SO GOOD AT THIS....IT'S LIKE THE STUDENTS TEACHING THE TEACHER!)

BY THE BY, THE SBD DID NOT DRIVE A BUS DOWN THERE, HE DROVE HIS POV (PRIVATLEY OWNED VEHICLE...REMEMBER THAT ONE FROM "LEFT IN PRIVATE VEHICLE??")

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-1-06

Sooz wrote:
weeper wrote:
WHY THEN DID SBD STATE HE WENT DOWN THERE AND AFETWARD ON HIS WAY BACK ..."I EVEN CHECKED THE SWIFTWATER CAFE, AND SHE WASN'T THERE EITHER

To establish credence that he was somewhere he actually wasn't...to place himself in another direction or location or to lead LE away from that direction...if he says she wasn't there...who's to question him...he was, at that point in time in everyone's mind, the "only/last" person to have actually seen and spoken with Maura...so who better to recognize her and know if she was/wasn't someplace. And, as a "former LE" in everyone's mind, he may have appeared above reproach that anyone would question his statements or actions

ALL VERY GOOD POINTS....TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE AS WELL...TO SEE WHO ELSE MAY HAVE PASSED THE SCENE DURING THE "GOLDEN HOUR" BETWEEN 7:00-8:00 PM.....MAYBE SOMEONE THAT PASSED HIS OWN RESIDENCE...(SPECULATING HERE)...WHO MAY HAVE SEEN HIM AT THE SCENE IN THE BUS....

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-1-06

SilkyBoxerz wrote:
SBD told Gary Lindsey (Caledonian record)he went looking for Maura...not "French Pond road", but to "French Pond'...probably to (for some odd reason) check his and his neighbors ice-fishing shanties.

SILK...YOU ARE CORRECT AS TO SBD STATEMENTS TO GARY LINDSEY...AND YOU ALSO SAID ABOVE THAT SBD HAD AN "ICE-FISHING" (BOB-HOUSE) STORED AT HIS RESIDENCE (BELOW) DURING THAT PERIOD (2004)...INTERESTING OBSERVATION LEADS ME TO ASSUME YOU'VE SEEN THIS BOB-HOUSE THERE...PLEASE PM ME IF YOU WILL. THANKS, SILKYBOXER.

His ice fishing shanty that used to be parked/stored on the left side of his house...or his moms house.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-1-06

Jane wrote:
Quick question ....

Why would the witness who reported that SBD stayed on bus a "long time" assume he was calling 911 when there is/was no cell phone service in the area at the time?

Are there radios on the bus?

In which case, why would he have gone inside to call as claimed, especially considering he had "trouble getting through" from his house phone? Why not just call from the bus?

This just doesn't add up ... the "Buts" in Maura's case are too many to count!

WORRIED

Where is the Swiftwater Cafe that Weeper spoke of located? I've been down in your area quite a bit and have never seen it. No listing in the phone book. Maybe the log store is locally refered to as Swiftwater Cafe?

MY APOLOGIES TO ALL, I MISNAMED THIS STORE...IT'S THE SWIFTWATER STAGESTOP....SORRY...AND IT IS ON ROUTE 112 WEST OF THE ACCIDENT LOCATION. THERE IS ALSO A CLOSED DOWN STORE (NOT SURE WHAT IT WAS CALLED IN 2004) LOCATED JUST PRIOR TO REACHING FRENCH POND ROAD HEADING WEST ON ROUTE 112...PERHAPS SILK OR EARL CAN PROVIDE THE NAME OF THAT STORE FOR US...I BELIEVE THERE WAS AN OUTSIDE TELEPHONE AT THAT LOCATION IN 2004 AS WELL. AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE INCORRECT NAME..

Weeper, do you know?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-1-06

Jane wrote:
Weeper wrote: BY THE BY, THE SBD DID NOT DRIVE A BUS DOWN THERE, HE DROVE HIS POV (PRIVATLEY OWNED VEHICLE...REMEMBER THAT ONE FROM "LEFT IN PRIVATE VEHICLE??")

This statement has me confused. "Left in private vehicle" is what Anne heard during the "original" 7 pm call. Are you saying you think it's possible that SBD picked Maura up at 7 in his POV and then somehow got back on his bus to be observed by the Westman's closer to 7:30?

I AM NOT SAYING SBD MADE THE CALL, I AM SAYING THESE ARE TERMINOLOGIES USED IN LE..(OR "WANNA-BE'S") INDICATING THAT THE PERSON MAKING THAT "TURN-AROUND" CALL WAS ONE OR THE OTHER. SBD WOULD NOT LIKELY HAVE MADE THAT CALL AS HE WASN'T AT THE SCENE AT 7:00 PM.

I'm assuming his POV was parked at his residence since he drove the bus home.

I WOULD ASSUME THIS TO BE TRUE AS WELL.

Which means he would have had to arrive home before 7pm and then leave again in his POV, pick up Maura, do whatever, and then go back home, get his bus and drive back past scene, and turn around so his bus was headed East as reported by Westmans at 7:30. And these frequet trips back and forth would not be noticed by any neighbors?

Seems much more likely to me that he could have observed someone picking her up ... someone he knew? It's obvious he lied with purpose, but to whose benifit?

I ALSO BELIEVE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE ALL THE WAY TO THE ACCIDENT SCENE WHILE SEATED IN HIS WESTBOUND FACING SCHOOL BUS.

Also, a "wannabe " cop would probably travel with a scanner and have one at home.

I DO NOT KNOW IF SBD HAD A POLICE SCANNER AT HOME OR NOT...THE ASSUMPTION IS PLAUSABLE...A LOT OF FOLKS UP-COUNTRY HAVE SCANNERS AND OFTEN ASSIST IN RESCUES, FIREFIGHTING AND EMERGENCIES...UP THERE, NEIGHBORS DO LOOK AFTER EACH OTHER FAR MORE SO THAN THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE SUBURBS OR CITIES...FOR SURE.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-1-06

Pike wrote:
Weeper, much of what Atwood says at this point seems like the attempts of a man to explain to everybodys satisfaction that he looked in as many places as he resonably could.

On another note it still seems plausible that the construction worker did see Maura. His description of her running and her averting her eyes and jogging up some path seem to ring true for what Maura would have done under the circumstances. For someone attempting to throw of the scent so to speak, why did he not say that he saw a girl-rather than someone with a hood up whose sex was indeterminate; and why did he not simply say that he saw a woman fitting maura's description getting into a car with out-of-state license plates? As a way to divert attention from the accident spot he did a pretty lousy job.

PIKE, FOR CW TO HAVE SEEN SOMEONE RUNNING ON ROUTE 112 EASTBOUND IS PLAUSABLE..( I NOTICE YOU REFER TO "HER" IN THE ABOVE)..SOMEONE WITH A HOOD UP AND WHOSE SEX WAS INDETERMINATE.....YET THE POLICE REPORTED A WITNESS STATING HE SAW A WOMAN... HAD MAURA JOGGED THAT ROUTE EAST SHE WOULD ALSO HAVE PASSED BY SBD'S HOUSE WHILE HE WAS EITHER ON HIS PORCH OR SEATED IN THE BUS.

SO, IF WE BELIEVE ONE STORY (CW'S OR SBD'S) THEN THE OTHER DOSN'T HOLD LOGICALLY. IN AN INSTANCE SUCH AS THIS, ONE HAS TO ASSUME NEITHER STORY TO BE TRUE AND CONCLUDE A HIDDEN AGENDA SOMEWHERE ALONE THE LINE...CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE. YOU SEEM TO FAVOR CW'S EXPLANATION MORE SO THAN SBD'S ONLY FOR THE FACT THAT SBD HAS MADE SEVERAL STATEMENTS THAT CONFLICT. CW STATEMENT IS MORE PLAUSABLE THAN SBD, HOWEVER HE DID NOT COME FORWARD WITH ANY STATEMENT UNTIL HE WAS APPROACHED BY LE TWO MONTHS LATER. JUST AS SBD COULD HAVE SEEN WHAT WAS HAPPENING 560 FEET DOWN THE ROAD THAT NIGHT, SO COULD CW WHEN HE RETURNED HOME.

Perhaps someone saw the school bus driver on French Pond Road, and he knew this, therefore, there is but little choice to mention you were there, else, the person who saw you would tell!!!!!?

PERIPETEIA...NICE WORK, I SEE YOUR "BRAIN JUICES" ARE BACK UP AGAIN, CONGADULATIONS!!

SETTING UP AN "AFTER-THE-FACT" ALIBI FOR BEING SOMEWHERE YOU'RE NOT NORMALLY SEEN IS A COMMON "SHOT IN THE DARK" PLOY PEOPLE USE WHEN ARRESTED FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY BECAUSE AN ALIBI HAS TO BE PROVEN AS AN "AFIRMITIVE DEFENSE"

This could apply to CW as well as SBD.

ALTHOUGH SBD WAS NEVER (AND AGAIN I REPEAT, NEVER A POLICE OFFICER) A POLICE OFFICER...HE WAS CERTAINLY A "WANNA-BE"...

HERE'S ANOTHER BIT FOR OUR "CYBER-GUMSHOE-TEAM"

WHY THEN DID SBD STATE HE WENT DOWN THERE AND AFETWARD ON HIS WAY BACK ..."I EVEN CHECKED THE SWIFTWATER CAFE, AND SHE WASN'T THERE EITHER"....

(I ALREADY HAVE MY OWN THEORY FOR THESE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS...BUT YOU ALL ARE SO GOOD AT THIS....IT'S LIKE THE STUDENTS TEACHING THE TEACHER!)

BY THE BY, THE SBD DID NOT DRIVE A BUS DOWN THERE, HE DROVE HIS POV (PRIVATLEY OWNED VEHICLE...REMEMBER THAT ONE FROM "LEFT IN PRIVATE VEHICLE??")

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-2-06

Jane wrote:
So the SBD had a scanner on his porch?

THIS FACT I WAS NOT AWARE OF....UNTIL I READ HELENA'S POST ABOUT THE SCANNER ON THE PORCH

All of a sudden his "calling 911 from his porch" makes sense. That was something that always made me wonder. Why would he go "outside" to make the call on a cold february night?

SUPPOSE HE WENT OUT ONTO THE INCLOSED, WINDOWED PORCH TO MAKE HIS 911 CALL TO BE "OUT-OF-EARSHOT" OF HIS MOTHER AND GIRLFRIEND. IT DID TAKE HIM A CONCIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET THROUGH...HE MAY HAVE MADE CALL(S) TO SOMEONE ELSE DURING THAT 10 MINUTES.

If he could have seen the accident scene from his porch, well that would have been logical, but since he didn't have an unobstructed view, why go outside?

PERHAPS NOT TO WATCH THE ACCIDENT SCENE, BUT MAYBE TO WATCH SOMEONE ELSE...AND LISTEN TO THE SCANNER AT THE SAME TIME.

I had figured he picked it as his place of calling just because he couldn't see the scene from there, but that never really sat right with me. He couldn't see from inside the house either.

THIS IS TRUE, HE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD AN UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.

But a scanner .... now it seems obvious why he called from there, he was listening to the scanner. Was it just out of curiosity? Did he want to hear his name mentioned on the scanner? Or was it something more? Did he "need" to know what the police were doing

JANE, YOU PICKED UP ON A EVRY IMPORTANT POINT HERE. THANK YOU.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-8-06

I REALIZE I HAVE NOT POSTED FOR AWHILE...AS WITH EVERYONE POSTING THIS SITE...I TOO HAVE BEEN BUSY WITH DAY-TO-DAY EMPLOYMENT.

ANNE...SORRY I HADN'T ANSWERED ALL PMs I RECEIVED..

HOWEVER BACK TO THE INVESTIGATION I'VE CONDUCTED THUS FAR;

FIRST OFF, ALL THOSE WHO STATED EARLIER THAT "THE DOG/SEARCH TEAM FOLLOWED THE SCENT TO THE CW/SBD DRIVEWAYS....THIS IS AN ACCURITE STATEMENT ACCORDING TO INFORMATION PROVIDED BY NHSP....TO THE CORNER OF BRADLEY HILL ROAD....MY EALIER MEASUREMENTS AT THE 100 YARD-FROM-THE-ACCIDENT-SITE WAS BASED ON INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE MEDIA AND A FAMILY MEMBER (INCORRECTLY)...

MY STATEMENT THAT THE CW DID NOT SEE "A FEMALE...RUNNING ALONG ROUTE 112 EAST" THE NIGHT MAURA DISSAPEARED IS NOT SECOND HAND INFORMATION...IT'S "FROM THE HORSES MOUTH" SO TO SPEAK.

AS TO WHAT INFORMATION SBD & CW PROVIDED TO LE...IS ANYONES GUESS....SEARCH WARRANTS WERE SOUGHT AND EXICUTED BY NHSP...OVER THE PAST 2 YEARS...

AS STATED BEFORE, TO ASSUME SBD & CW ARE THE ONLY INDIVIDULES BEING QUESTIONED IN THIS INVESTIGATION IS A MISLEADING ASSUMPTION....ALL WITNESSES ARE BEING QUESTIONED (AGAIN AND AGAIN) BY LE AND THE PI TEAM INVOLVED IN THIS INVESTIGATION.

KR...YOU ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO POST WHATEVER THEORIES YOU COME UP WITH, AS ARE ALL POSTERS, AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT ALL POSSIBILITIES/THEORIES AND BREAK THEM APART IF WE CAN....WHAT'S LEFT IS A COMBINATION OF SPECULATION WITH LOGIC..SOMETHING TO BE WORKED ON...

SUSAN....MAURA LOCKING UP THE VEHICLE...LEAVING HER TREASURES IN THE VEHICLE....AND "ACCEPTING" A RIDE FROM SOMEONE IS A LIKELY POSSIBILITY...IF ONE DOES NOT TRUST A BUSDRIVER..OR A STRANGER...WHO WOULD ONE MOST LIKELY TRUST...WHO DO WE TURN TO IN AN EMERGENCY...???

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-10-06

HokieMom wrote:
weeper wrote:
FIRST OFF, ALL THOSE WHO STATED EARLIER THAT "THE DOG/SEARCH TEAM FOLLOWED THE SCENT TO THE CW/SBD DRIVEWAYS....THIS IS AN ACCURITE STATEMENT ACCORDING TO INFORMATION PROVIDED BY NHSP....TO THE CORNER OF BRADLEY HILL ROAD....MY EALIER MEASUREMENTS AT THE 100 YARD-FROM-THE-ACCIDENT-SITE WAS BASED ON INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE MEDIA AND A FAMILY MEMBER (INCORRECTLY)...

MY STATEMENT THAT THE CW DID NOT SEE "A FEMALE...RUNNING ALONG ROUTE 112 EAST" THE NIGHT MAURA DISSAPEARED IS NOT SECOND HAND INFORMATION...IT'S "FROM THE HORSES MOUTH" SO TO SPEAK.WEEPER

Weeper – please clarify, if you would. Are you now saying that the scent dog actually did trace (or appear to trace) the scent the full 530 ft to SBD's and CW's house? This is very different....did you get new information?

ACCORDING TO STATEMENTS MADE BY STATE POLICE TO THE CALEDONIAN RECORD

"Scarinza said a canine tracked Murray for about 100 yards east of where Murray's car went off the road. He said the trail ended in the general area of Atwood's residence."

THIS IS WHAT WAS TOLD TO THE FAMILY AS WELL....SO IF THIS STATEMENT IS CORRECT...THE ACCIDENT SCENE WAS NOT AT THE "BLUE RIBBON" TREE, IT WAS FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD

Also – are you saying that you know for a fact: 1) that CW never said he saw "a female running along Rt 112" or

YES, I AM SAYING #1, CW SAID HE NEVER SAID TO THE POLICE HE SAW A FEMALE, HE DID TELL THE POLICE HE "SAW SOMEONE.."

2) that he never "saw a female running on Rte 112"?

YES, TO #2 AS WELL...BECAUSE HE COULDN'T IDENTIFY THIS PERSON AS A FEMALE OR MALE...

I'm pressing on this one, because I’m not sure it ever was said that CW said that...I believe it was reported he said he saw someone with a dark jacket and light colored hood?

THIS IS WHAT I AM REPORTING TO YOU THAT HE SAID...

I am concerned that we may be misunderstanding your statements and assuming they mean something they may not. In other words - "I know, for a fact, that he did not see a female running on Rte112" does not = "I know for a fact he did not say he saw a female running on Rt 112." It is important that we distinguish exactly what you know as fact.

IT WAS REPORTED (IN NEWSPRINT) BY LE THAT THAT A WITNESS CAME FORWARD AND SAID HE SAW A WOMAN RUNNING ALONG ROUTE 112 EAST WHILE RETURNING FROM A JOB IN FRANCONIA....AND IT'S BELIEVED HE MAY HAVE SEEN MAURA...WHICH INITIATED ADDITIONAL SEARCHES ALONG THAT ROUTE...(THIS BY POLICE TO THE MEDIA...)

Please help us understand exactly what you know for a fact. Thanks!

HOPE THIS CLEARS UP SOME MISUNDERSTANDINGS..

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-10-06

hydemi wrote:
excellent interchange between Weeper and HokieMom above.

CW did not say that he saw Maura.

THIS IS TRUE

He did say that he saw a youngster hurrying fast.

AN "UNIDENTIFIED" PERSON...

He did not give that detailed a description but there appears to be valid doubt as to whether the details he gave fit Maura that evening, and how can we know with only the few details released to the press?

WE CAN'T KNOW

He did not go himself to the police as we know; they contacted him after he was overheard by another neighbor when he was telling a friend sometime in April two months later that he "might" have seen her.

TRUE, THOUGH IT WAS NOT A NEIGHBOR WHO OVERHEARD HIS CONVERSATION....IT WAS ANOTHER SOURCE.

At the very least it appears he wanted to avoid involvement.

AVIOD SOMETHING....

He was contacted on Feb 14 by family and/or PI (help me Helena), and on Feb 19 by police and did not say anything at that time, just that he was home watching tv.

AS WE UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD A FAMILY MEMBER WITHIN DAYS OF MAURA'S ACCIDENT, CORRECT.

The details about veering aside up a side road would be consistent with the runner trying to avoid being hit or seen or both.

THIS IS LOGICAL AS WELL, HOWEVER...HE DID SAY HE WAS HOME WATCHING TV THAT NIGHT...

I would be astonished if CW's story has not been a major focus of investigation by NHSP as by his own words he potentially made himself the "last" person to see her.

I WILL NOT COMMENT ON THIS ISSUE...NOR WILL I SPECULATE ON WHAT THE NHSP'S MAJOR FOCUS IS AT THIS STAGE...

And finally one more time there is a huge question about his timeline, when he left Franconia after 7pm, which by my math would have him arriving in Swiftwater about the time of Maura's disappearance.

AGAIN, IF (AND THIS IS A BIG "IF") YOU BELIEVE ONE STORY OVER THE OTHER...WAS HE HOME WATCHING TV OR WAS HE RETURNING FROM A CONTACT JOB IN FRANCONIA...AND WHO OTHER THAN HE, SAID HE LEFT FRANCONIA AT 7:00PM

I HAVE NO IDEA IF HIS "RETUNING FROM FRANCONIA" STORY WAS FOLLOWED UP BY NHSP....REMEMBER, HE WAS A WITNESS AND NOT A SUSPECT WHO'S ALIBI NEEDED TO BE CHECKED....AND I SEEM TO RECALL, HE SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT HE WOULD OR DID CHECK "HIS RECORDS" TO DETERMINE IF HE WAS WORKING ON THE 9TH.

And many of us have questioned how he could not have seen something happening in the road ahead as he was arriving at the Bradley Hill Rd turn to his house, whenever he did arrive that evening--as he was coming west on 112 with his headlights shining forward to the crash scene, at the most 150 yards or so past Bradley Hill Rd where he turned.

THIS IS THE CRUX OF ALL HE HAD TO SAY...REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS HOME OR RETURNING HOME... IF WE STICK TO HIS STATEMENT ABOUT RETURNING FROM FRANCONIA..AND HE WAS ABLE TO "SEE A PERSON RUNNING ALONG A COMPLETELY DARKENED TWO-LANE ROAD....WHY DIDN'T HE SEE ALL THAT ACTIVITY AT THE ACCIDENT SITE!

SO WE CONTINUE BY QUESTIONING CW'S MOTIVES FOR ANY/ALL HIS STATEMENTS...TO VARRIOUS INDIVIDUALS...THAT SEEM TO CONTRIDICT EACH OTHER. I DO NOT HAVE THAT ANSWER....

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-10-06

HYDEMI,

REMEMBER THE TIMELINE:

FROM THE TIME SGT. CICEL SMITH ARRIVED, CHECKED MAURA'S DISABLED VEHICLE, KNOCKED ON THE WESTMANS DOOR AND INQUIRED, LEFT THE WESTMANS AND WALKED DOWN TO SPEAK WITH THE SBD.....REALLY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE (IN THIS PART OF "LOGIC") WHEN SGT. SMITH SPOKE TO THE WESTMANS OR THE SBD....ONLY THAT HE HAD SPOKEN TO THEM AS "THE FIRST OFFICIAL VEHICLE" ON THE SCENE....

A SIMPLE TURN OF THE HEAD WOULD TELL HIM (CICEL) IF CW WAS HOME OR NOT...CW PARKED HIS BLUE PANEL VAN IN PLAIN VIEW FROM SBD'S PARKED BUS....

A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER, HE TELLS A FAMILY MEMBER (DID HE TELL THE POLICE?) HE WAS HOME WATCHING TV.....

SO...IF CICEL SMITH TURNS HIS HEAD AND DOSN'T SEE CW IS HOME...HE ASSUMES AND EXCEPTS CW'S STORY 2 MONTHS LATER....

BUT IT IS STILL IN THE REALM OF LOGIC THAT IF CW WAS IN FACT HOME WATCHING TV...AND FOR SOME REASON??? LEFT IN HIS VAN BEFORE CICEL SMITH ARRIVED....THIS WOULD ACCOUNT FOR HIS VAN NOT BEING THERE WHEN CICEL DID ARRIVE...

IN ANY INSTANCE....."THAR'S SUMTIN I WANT TA KNOW, LUCY!"

WHAT DID SGT. SMITH OBSERVE WHEN HE WALKED DOWN TO SPEAK WITH SBD...HE HAD TO HAVE BEEN LOOKING ALL AROUND AS HE WALKED...EVEN BY HIS OWN STATEMENTS HE SAID HE "SEARCHED THE IMMEDIATE AREA" AND FOUND NO SIGN OF THE OPERATOR.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-10-06

mcsmom wrote:
I am begining to think it is time to part ways with some of the information that has been presented.

I AGREE WE ALL NEED TO PART WITH SOME OF "OUR THEORIES" OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENED....HOWEVER, THE INFORMATION WE CAN NOT PART FROM, WE NEED TO CONFIRM AND/OR REJECT INFORMATION WITH LOGIC.

BITS OF INFORMATION ARE THE ACTUAL PEICES OF THE PUZZLE IN ORDER TO REACH.....

There has to be a bigger picture of what really happened.

THE "BIGGER PICTURE"......

I DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS....NOR DID I EVER TELL ANYONE ON THIS SITE THAT I DID HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS....

I WILL POST FACTS (THAT I KNOW FROM PERSONAL, INVESTIGATIVE KNOWLEDGE) TO THIS SITE FOR ALL OF US TO DEVELOPE A LOGICAL THEORY...I DO NOT HAVE ALL THE FACTS IN THIS INVESTIGATION AND IF I POST A "THEORY" I FULLY EXPECT THAT THEORY TO BE "PICKED APART" BUT NOT TO BE COMPLETELY ABBOLISHED OR ABANDONED BECAUSE SOME FACTS HAVE NOT YET COME TO LIGHT...

WE CAN NOT (AND MUST NOT) STOP THIS FLOW OF INFORMATION BECAUSE WE ARE UPSET, EMOTIONAL, OR FRUSTRATED....THIS WOULD BE A DISSERVICE TO SEEKING THE TRUTH....AND IN THE END....THE TRUTH WILL COME TO LIGHT.

SOME OF US WILL THEN SAY.."GEE, I KNEW THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED" AND SOME OF US WILL SAY "GEEZ, WAS I OFF BASE, DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING!"

BUT THAT IS WHAT IT IS....WE ARE THE INNER CIRCLE, WE ARE THE "PRATORIAN GUARD" SEEKING AND PROTECTING THE TRUTH, WHERE EVER IT LEADS US...FOR MAURA.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-10-06

mcsmom wrote:
What are the odds that Maura would have walked into the arms of not one, not two, but three or possibly more, people who would have placed themselves in a playing field of lies?

THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE LIES....THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THIS CRIME (AND IT IS A CRIME) WAS COMMITED BY MORE THAN ONE PERSON...ON ONE LEVEL OR ANOTHER...BEFORE, DURING OR AFTER THE FACT....

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-11-06

mcsmom wrote:
Weeper wrote:
THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE LIES....THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THIS CRIME (AND IT IS A CRIME) WAS COMMITED BY MORE THAN ONE PERSON...ON ONE LEVEL OR ANOTHER...BEFORE, DURING OR AFTER THE FACT....

WEEPER

Well, since no one else is asking Weeper(at least openly), I will....... How do you know it's a crime?

FAIR ENOUGH QUESTION, AND I'LL ANSWER IT....BECAUSE LIES, CRIMES, DECIETFULNESS AND AVERTIONS ARE THE STOCK OF MY TRADE AS A SENIOR, CERTIFIED CRIMINAL DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR IN SEVERAL STATES...THAT ASIDE, THE NH STATE'S ATTORNEY OFFICE MAJOR CRIME UNIT DOSN'T WORK ON TRAFFIC TICKETS....

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-11-06

TO ALL...

REMEMBER I MADE A STATEMENT IN AN EARLIER POST...I ASKED ALL TO

1) THINK LOGIC...WHEN SETTING UP A THEORY AND/OR SENERIO, AND USE AS MANY "FACTS" KNOWN BEFORE COMPILING THE THEORY. NEWSPAPER ARTICALS ARE HELPFUL AND DO PROVIDE SOME FACTS...BUT NOT ALL.

2) EXPECT YOUR THEORY/SENERIO TO BE BROKEN APART BY THE WEB-SITE INVESTIGATORS, ALSO BY FACTS AND LOGIC....THERE IS NO PLACE HERE FOR "WISE-ASS" REMARKS WHEN BREAKING A THEORY.

3) IF A THEROY CANNOT BE COMPLETELY BROKEN, TAKE THE USEFUL, UNBOKEN PARTS AND START YOUR OWN SENERIO/THEORY..AND BUILD ON IT.

PIKE, IT IS A PLAUSABLE SENERIO YOU'VE PRESENTED...BUT THERE WERE WITNESSES PRESENTED (WHETHER RELIABLE OR NOT) WHO HAVE MADE STATEMENTS THAT HOLD TRUE ENOUGH...THE WESTMAN'S FOR INSTANCE...ALONG WITH THE MAN WHO LIVES BETWEEN THE ACCIDENT SITE AND THE CW/SBD PROPERTYS..(YES I DO KNOW THIS MAN, AND NO I WILL NOT POST HIS NAME..IT'S NOT MY PLACE TO DO SO..)...THESE WITNESSES ALL AGREED THERE WAS NO OTHER VEHICLE STOPPED AT MAURA'S VEHICLE UNTIL THE SCHOOL BUS STOPPED AND NONE AFTERWARD...THE ODDS THAT ONE, OR TWO OF THESE WITNESSES STEPPED AWAY FROM THIER WINDOWS AND MAY HAVE MISSED THIS TYPE OF ENCOUNTER...WELL THE ODDS ARE HIGH, BUT IT COULD STILL HAVE HAPPENED...BUT NOT ALL THREE...AT THAT PRECISE TIME....THE ODDS WOULD BE ASTRONOMICAL.

THE WINE WAS IN A BOX, NOT A BOTTLE...SMALL POINT, BUT A FACT NONE-THE-LESS.

OTHER PORTIONS OF YOUR SENERIO I AM KEEPING....BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS VALIDITY TO THOSE PORTIONS...THAT MAY FIT INTO ONE OF MY OWN THEORIES...

THANKS FOR THE POST. WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-11-06

Pike wrote:

weeper wrote:
PIKE, IT IS A PLAUSABLE SENERIO YOU'VE PRESENTED...BUT THERE WERE WITNESSES PRESENTED (WHETHER RELIABLE OR NOT) WHO HAVE MADE STATEMENTS THAT HOLD TRUE ENOUGH...THE WESTMAN'S FOR INSTANCE...ALONG WITH THE MAN WHO LIVES BETWEEN THE ACCIDENT SITE AND THE CW/SBD PROPERTYS..(YES I DO KNOW THIS MAN, AND NO I WILL NOT POST HIS NAME..IT'S NOT MY PLACE TO DO SO..)...THESE WITNESSES ALL AGREED THERE WAS NO OTHER VEHICLE STOPPED AT MAURA'S VEHICLE UNTIL THE SCHOOL BUS STOPPED AND NONE AFTERWARD...THE ODDS THAT ONE, OR TWO OF THESE WITNESSES STEPPED AWAY FROM THIER WINDOWS AND MAY HAVE MISSED THIS TYPE OF ENCOUNTER...WELL THE ODDS ARE HIGH, BUT IT COULD STILL HAVE HAPPENED...BUT NOT ALL THREE...AT THAT PRECISE TIME....THE ODDS WOULD BE ASTRONOMICAL.

So it can be said with certainty that there were no cars at the accident scene and none afterward?!!?

ACCORDING TO THE WITNESSES WHO HAVE COME FORWARD THUS FAR, NO OTHER VEHICLES STOPPED AT THE ACCIDENT LOCATION ASIDE FROM THE SCHOOL BUS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WITH CERTAINTY???, THE TIDE WILL FLOW, THE NIGHT WILL FALL AND DAYBREAK COMES TOMORROW...

Is it me or is this a shocking new revelation?

IT MUST BE YOU PIKE, TELL ME ONE OTHER WITNESS THAT SAID DIFFERANTLY....NOT COUNTING "WITNESSES WE PUT INTO OUR SENERIOS/THEORIES" WITH NO BASIS IN FACT???

I mean, in that case she either got on Atwoods bus of her own volition or was taken onto it against her will

ONLY IF YOU DISCOUNT STATEMENTS FROM THE SAME WITNESSES I MENTIONED WHO SAID THEY SAW "SOMEONE WALKING AROUND THE VEHICLE AFTER THE BUS LEFT" AND THE FACT THAT HER VEHICLE WAS LOCKED WHEN LE ARRIVED....

or else she bolted by foot.

BOLTED BY FOOT....WHY COULDN'T SHE HAVE WALKED AWAYS DOWN THE ROAD AND MET WITH FOUL PLAY AWAY FROM HER VEHICLE?

Wow, and isn't the new witness, well, a new witness introduced just now to this site?

COME ON PIKE, DIDN'T I MENTION BEFORE ABOUT THE HOUSE BETWEEN THE ACCIDENT LOCATION AND THE SBD & CW PROPERTYS....OF COURSE I DID.

HELP ME OUT HERE PEOPLE.... WORK ON THIS WITH ME, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW FOR ABSOLUTE FACT THAT THE PERSON IN MAURA'S VEHICLE WAS IN FACT MAURA, NO ONE UP THERE KNOWS MAURA....HOW WOULD ANY OF THEM EVEN KNOW.

REMEMBER THE DOG TRACKING....STOPPED A 100 YARDS OR SO EAST ON 112, GOT CONFUSED...WASN'T SURE....GLOVES SELDOM WORN FROM INSIDE THE VEHICLE USED AS THE SCENT/PROP BY THE HANDLER..30 HOURS LATER....SBD STATEMENT WHEN HE SAW MAURA'S PICTURE "WELL HER HAIR WAS DOWN, SHE DIDN'T LOOK THE PICTURE"....

WHAT DO WE HAVE THAT'S AN ABSOLUTE SET OF FACTS...(FACTS!!..WHAT AN UGLY WORD WHEN THERE ARE SO FEW OF THEM)

  1. MAURA SET OUT FROM U-MASS AMHERST IN HER SATURN.
  2. SHE STOPPED SOMEWHERE IN AMHERST AND PURCHASED A BOX OF WINE AND SOME LIQUORS.
  3. THE SATURN WAS FOUND ABANDONED ALONG ROUTE 112 EAST IN HAVERHILL, NH.
  4. A SCHOOL BUS STOPPED AND THE DRIVER SPOKE WITH THE OCCUPANT OF THE VEHICLE...THE DRIVER OF THE BUS HAD NEVER SEEN MAURA BEFORE IN HIS LIVE. 5 .SOMETIME WITHIN ONE HOUR (7:00-8:00 pm) MAURA MURRAY DISAPPEARED.

THAT'S IT FOLKS...LIKE IT OR NOT...NOT ONE WITNESS EVER LAID EYES ON MAURA MURRAY PRIOR TO MAURA ENTERING HAVERHILL NH....FACT!

SHODDY POLICE WORK FROM THE START, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT AS ALSO A FACT.

PEOPLE LIE, FOR WHATEVER REASONS...THEY LIE...SBD, CW, AND WELL I WON'T GO THERE YET, BUT THEY LIED ABOUT OTHER FACTS THAT NIGHT...I'M WORKING ON THE WHY TO THOSE LIES...LETS US ALL DO THE SAME. THERE IS NO SMOKING GUN HERE....JUST A LOT OF SMOKE...

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-14-06

Pike wrote:
weeper wrote:
WHAT DO WE HAVE THAT'S AN ABSOLUTE SET OF FACTS...(FACTS!!..WHAT AN UGLY WORD WHEN THERE ARE SO FEW OF THEM)

  1. MAURA SET OUT FROM U-MASS AMHERST IN HER SATURN.
  2. SOMETIME WITHIN ONE HOUR (7:00-8:00 pm) MAURA MURRAY DISAPPEARED.WEEPER

Maybe these 2 facts are the most important - Maura set out from UMass around 4-4:30pm...and "disappeared." Do we know for fact that Maura disappeared sometime within the 7:00-8:00pm one hour time frame? No, we don't. If we think the way you are asking us to think, Weeper, then we have to look at the possibility that Maura disappeared sometime between 4:00-8:00pm...because as you said yourself...no one in Haverhill had ever seen Maura before, so we don't have any way to collaborate it was Maura driving the car.

Just taking your lead....

ACTUALLY, SOOZ...YOU ARE CORRECT. HOWEVER, OF ALL THE INFORMATION THROUGH THE MEDIA, THE LE COMMUNITY AND THIS SITE AS WELL....WOULD SUGGEST THAT AN ACCIDENT MAY HAVE OCCURED SOMETIME BETWEEN 7-7:30 PM THAT EVENING....AND AS THERE WAS NOT "OTHER ACCIDENT" REPORTED IN THE AREA...(THAT I AM AWARE OF)..AND MAURA'S VEHICLE WAS DISABLED IN THE SNOWBANK...THIS IS THE ACCIDENT WE ARE DEALING WITH....THANK YOU FOR THIS ASTUTE POINT, GOOD POINT WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4-14-06

armywife wrote:
BUT if we think about this... whose word are we taking that either of them were home. Theirs? All SBD would have to say is "you know I didnt have anything to do with it, just say you were here so they wont think I did"....or something of the sort. That is IF they have even been spoken to about whether or not they were home. Are we just taking SBD's word that they were? People protect family members all of the time because "they wouldn't do that"... or because they don want to admit that they would.

IT IS AN INTERESTING SENERIO, THANK YOU TO SOOZ.

A FACT KNOWN TO ME IS THAT THERE WAS A "CALL-BACK" TO SBD PHONE (A SHORT TIME AFTER IT WAS RECIEVED BY THE DISPATCHER)AND HIS "WIFE" (REMEMBER TO USE THE INFORMATION I PROVIDED, SHE IS HIS GIRLFRIEND) ANSWERED THAT CALL AND SAID SHE WAS TOLD THERE WAS AN ACCIDENT INVOLVING A FEMALE, SBD WAS OUTSIDE "IN HIS BUS" AT THIS TIME.

THE HOUSE HE LIVED IN WAS OWNED BY HIS MOTHER, WHO DECIDED TO SELL THE PLACE BECAUSE (FROM MY INFORMATION) SHE WAS UNHAPPY LIVING WITH THE SBD AND HIS GIRLFRIEND....THEY ARE "HOARDERS" AND THE LITTLE HOUSE WAS PACKED FULL OF "WHO-KNOWS-WHAT".

SBD DIDN'T "RUN OUT OF TOWN" HE MOVED OUT OF STATE A YEAR AND A HALF AFTER THE INCIDENT WHEN HIS MOTHER SOLD THE HOUSE AND WENT TO ANOTHER STATE WHERE HE HAS RELITIVES....

WHAT HE HAD TO OFFER THIS INVESTIGATION IS VERY CONFUSING, WHY HE STATED CERTAIN LIES TO DIFFERANT PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE MEDIA, IS STILL BEING QUESTIONED..

I WILL STATE WHAT I BELIEVE IN THIS RESPECT...I DO NOT BELIEVE MAURA EVER STEPPED FOOT ON THE SCHOOL BUS...

PLEASE DO NOT ASK BE WHY I BELIEVE THIS...BUT I DO, AND YOU ALL CAN CHOOSE YOUR PATHS....ON THIS SUBJECT IF YOU WISH....

WEEPER

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

4-14-06

Jane wrote:
Citigirl wrote:

My own thought is the abduction began on Swiftwater road. I also believe that there is more than one person involved in Maura's disappearance.

I agree with you Citigirl. If indeed Maura was the driver of the 7pm swiftwater road accident, I think that it's a viable scenario and the abduction began when she left the scene in a POV.

I would think that more than one person would have to involved ... at least two, someone that drove the POV that the driver got into and one to drive Maura's car at least 1 mile to the 112 accident scene that occured approximately 7:25. Due to time constraints I don't think the same person could have performed both tasks. (it's possible though that there never was a POV and she never left the swiftwater road area)

Furthermore, I believe that the person driving Maua's car to the scene would have had to have been a woman, unless SBD is lying about seeing a woman ... possible, but not likely since he was returning from a job and didn't have much time to get up to speed. It makes sense that a person who was pretending to be someone else might hold a deflated air bag up to their face when confronted with a witness. Also you would try hard to get rid of whoever it was who was looking at you.

The Red Truck witness .... At 7:15, the only reported accident would have been on Swiftwater road which begins across the street from the general store about 1 mile from 112 accident scene. The road splits off at the beginning and to the left is French Pond Road and to the right is Swiftwater Road aka Goose Lane. (That is if you were standing with your back facing the store and looking a little to the right.)

It would be the wrong way for a cop to be heading east down 112 past the store towards the accident scene. It would only take a couple of minutes to reach the scene from the store, so then it makes no sense why the W's would have made a 911 call at 7:27, the cops would already have arrived at the scene.

Weeper, a couple of questions I'd hoped you could answer ...

Is it possible for an "average joe" to obtain a dispatch report?

"DISPATCH "911 CALLS OR TURRENT TAPES AS THEY ARE CALLED IN THE BIG CITIES" CAN AND ARE OBTAINED THROUGH CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY'S AS A MATTER OF "DISCOVERY" IN 75% OF THE CASES I HAVE WORKED ON. THESE TURRENT TAPES ARE TRANSCRIBED AND TURNED OVER TO COUNSEL....SOME TOWNS REQUIRE COUNSEL TO PROVIDE A BLANK AUDIO TAPE AND HE/"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Collating all these statements from key players in this mess is just what this case needs: Clarity.

Even though he's going on some speculation, Kelly's thoughts are gold and are turning my mind once again, back to where I was this past winter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hey - I might have more quotes from Weeper at some point - I don't know. If I do, I might have to move these posts.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Post 'em when you do ... his thoughts are gold.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NOTE: I DON'T SUGGEST ANYONE SEARCH THE INTERNET ARCHIVE FOR THESE, AS THE PAGES STORED THERE ARE FULL OF POISONED LINKS. I'VE GOT A WEIRD OPERATING SYSTEM THAT CAN GRAB THIS STUFF AND NOT BE HURT BY IT.

weeper2

17 Nov 2006
Posts: 77

Post Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:30 am
Post subject: A New Start...

As with this new web-site starting at page one, this investigation is also "starting at the beginning" once again. The Team searches last month, the vehicle and all other "facts as known" have brought us all to another "turning point" in this investigation.

All of you (long-time posters, and new alike) have done a great service to both the family of Maura Murray and the investigators volunteering in this case.

You now know who I am and my affiliation with this investigation and I would like to state in this Forum, with regard to Mr. Murray's request for documents from the NHSP and the AG's Office;

We (the Team) do not work for Mr. Murray, we volunteer our time and expertice under the Molly Bish Foundation. This Team of expert investigators at no time requested, wanted or sought any records held by the State of New Hampshire. The reason for this is very simple....if any licensed investigator acted on any information from the NHSP contained in any document....we would be "interferring in an on-going police investigation" and would be subject to charges for doing so. In effect, our hands would be tied and we could no longer continue as "concerned citizens" (which is our status, mandated by statute under the RSA's of NH).

This being said up front, please understand that by not having any of this information (the Police Reports, Accident Reports, Statements of Witnesses, etc...) we are free to continue our work....Don't misunderstand what I am saying here, if I were Fred Murray...I would do exactly what he is doing, that being everything humanly possible to find my daughter...and then some!

We, Licensed Investigators, do not have that luxury...we have to conduct investigations using the methodology and procedures tested and true to our profession.

I am not going to post anything on this site that will interfere in our investigation moving forward....and it is moving forward though at times slower than I would like. Please continue to ask questions, provide theories and senerios as you deem relate to this investigation....300 minds working on this is far better than 13 or 14 investigators.

Respectfully, weeper2

The truth is sometimes hidden, lies sit on the surface and fade with time allowing the truth to shine though.

weeper2

Joined: 17 Nov 2006 Posts: 77
Post Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:32 am
Post subject: Reply with quote
Anne,

I really don't mind identifying who I am, as Popeye says "I am who I am, I'm Popeye the sailor man". I actually was a gunner in the Navy from 68 to 74....seems like 30 + years ago....Oh, it was 30 something years ago!! Time sure does pass, don't it!

Helena

Did you try out my remedy for swollen elbows, "The Irish Ice-pac" yet??

Earl....the bartender, an Irish Ice-pac is an ice cold Killians (concaved bottle bottom) fits on the elbow nicely to take the swelling down. Done three times in 15 minutes and the pain goes away. Course' you have to drink the beer as well, for medicinal purposes only! Kid's, don't try this at home without adult supervision. OK, I'll go sit in the "TOT" for awhile. See, even I have a sense of humor.

Shack...where are you, girl?? Silky....I will be coming back up your way, maybe next weekend, will go for another wlak if you're up to it.

Weeper2

The truth is sometimes hidden, lies sit on the surface and fade with time allowing the truth to shine though.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL
August 19, 2008

Post # 4220

To All,

This is a long post, Part 1

I would like an opportunity to respond to several posts below if I may, some of what you will read will be familiar from previous postings both on this site and the MMM site and some of this information you may not have heard before. I will be as clear as possible when stating an opinion and/or scenario.

Sophiebean….post # 4193…you are correct in that the issue with the calling card call was not from the Red Cross (debunked, as you say)

Quija post #4198 references the box of wine found at the scene. After Quija read the “official Accident Report” submitted by the first responding officer (post #4199) realized several discrepancies conflicting/supporting/picking and choosing/ with regard to witness’s statements. The report was in fact written six days after the incident and one would expect the information to be more accurate rather than illusive.

Firecat’s post #201…the vehicle you are referencing I believe was in connection to Breanna Maitland’s disappearance. I was in contact two years ago with two private detectives from up-state NY who were working with her family at the time. We met in Swiftwater for two days and concluded (as have the VTSP/NHSP) the cases were similar but not connected.

Sophiebean (post #4194)… Brianna’s vehicle was actually “backed into” the north side of an abandoned farm building/barn close to the roadway on a straightaway. It was our collective opinion it appeared she was fleeing and deliberately tried to hide from someone chasing her vehicle and slid into the side of the building while backing up. Again, this case was not investigated until a couple of days later,(the patrol officer was going off duty for his weekend and didn’t report it until much later) in fact the PI’s from NY had a set of photographs supplied to them from some tourists passing through the area the next morning who thought it so peculiar they took pictures of the car. Another very interesting case indeed….

Whiston post #4204….the Westmans reported having heard an acceleration THEN the thud and yes, you are exactly correct to wonder about the time sequence of events, it’s very troubling indeed. BTW, we are still uncertain as to whether a receipt for Maura’s purchases was in the vehicle thereby allowing one to comment “…appears that some of the alcohol is missing…”

Paris post #4206…the first “accident”(where we believe the over-hang damage to the hood occurred) in our collective opinion, most likely occurred on Route 112 from where Route 112 starts off Route 302 in Swiftwater and prior to intersection with French Pond Road. This would explain the responding officer (CS) turning and continuing along Goose Lane toward that location then changing directions and heading east on Route 112 to the Weathered Barn location.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where is MAURA MURRAY
(T66DK0TLH7PP4VJ36)
Posted in the Franconia Forum

Weeper
AOL
August 19, 2008

Post # 4221

To accurately follow along with this reasoning I suggest one needs a good map of this area, a copy of the “Accident Report” and Advocator’s Time-line Chart. BTW, I want to thank Advocator for a fine piece of work in compiling what is “believed to be known”, there are a lot of facts in this document. I will communicate with him/her directly and this document will be updated by it’s originator as he/she sees fit.

Eurobserver post #4216…the Saturn being found with the gearshift in the neutral position aside from its being towed could also be indicative of the shifter being “knocked” out of position (hence the Westmans hearing an acceleration then a thud) or the operator shifted into neutral (rather than into park) to extract the ignition keys and secure the vehicle. When Mr. Murray later started the engine with his separate set of keys, it started right up.

My personal opinion is that the Saturn was turned into Old Peters Road, put into reverse and backed into the snow bank (again accounting for the acceleration and then a thud) and the operator pulled the shift lever into neutral rather than push it up into park. Under this scenario the Westmans would not have see the headlights during this maneuver as they would have shown up Old Peters Road. This is only an assumption based on a belief the Saturn was put at that location.

Please do read and study the accident report very closely as there are many answers to your questions in that one simple document. What’s not in the report answers a few more questions. All the little check-off boxes should be scrutinized as well, they paint a picture as much as the words do.

Whiston’s questioning about the time-line as relating to the chain of events is troubling at best. He is correct that if we go along with the witness leaving work at the Cottage Hospital by way of Goose Lane-to-French Pond Road-to Route 112 East to the Weathered Barn taking place between 7:10-7:15 PM, and seeing the black Bronco (H1) there ahead of him/her we have to conclude #1) That SC was on scene before the Westman’s call to dispatch at 7:26 PM as recorded OR #2) the witness’s time line is incorrect. If we go with #1 scenario we have to now account for the SBD (BA) statements and time line of events and the Westman’s observations from just prior to 7:26 PM through the time the bus driver was present and they stopped watching. Logic would dictate we have to accept #2 scenario that the witness from the hospital mis-stated the times. At any rate, it’s still troubling that it took the officer at least nineteen (19) minutes from dispatch to on-scene response.

Respectfully,

Weeper